BITCOIN vs ALTs Weekend Who Wins or Do we All? : binance

BitcoinBCH.com accidentally publishes on-chain proof that they fake BCHs adoption metrics. Post to r/btc gets deleted and OP is now permanently banned.

Everybody who has posted this on btc has been banned according to modlog. Total of 9 users so far. Don't post this on btc or you will get banned. If you get banned comment on this thread or PM me.

May 2020:

According to btc modlogs, mc-78 has been banned because he questioned the April report with this comment.

According to btc modlogs, BCH4TW has been banned because he questioned the April report with this comment.

March 2020:

According to btc modlogs, bch4god has been banned because he questioned the February report with this comment.

According to btc modlogs, ISeeGregPeople has been banned because he linked to this thread in his comment.

February 2020:

According to btc modlogs, whene-is-satoshi has been banned because he linked to this thread in his comment.

January 2020:

According to btc modlogs, cryptokittykiller's post has been removed for linking to this thread.

According to btc modlogs, bashcalf has now been banned for linking to this thread.

According to btc modlogs, EnterLayer2 has now been banned for this post pointing out that this thread has reached 1000 upvotes.

This article was posted by bitcoinsatellite on btc here. Once it reached frontpage it got deleted and OP was banned from btc and bitcoincash as a result.

Disclaimer: I am not and have never been affiliated with any of the mentioned parties in a private or professional matter.
Presumably in an attempt to smear a local competitor, Hayden Otto inadvertently publishes irrefutable on-chain proof that he excluded non-BCH retail revenue to shape the "BCH #1 in Australia" narrative.
  • Scroll down to "Proof of exclusion" if you are tired of the drama recap.
  • Scroll down to "TLDR" if you want a summary.

Recap

In September 2019, BitcoinBCH.com started publishing so called monthly "reports" about crypto retail payments in Australia. They claimed that ~90% of Australia's crypto retail revenue is processed via their own HULA system and that ~92% of all crypto retail revenue happens in BCH.
They are aggregating two data sources to come up with this claim.
One is TravelByBit (TBB) who publishes their PoS transactions (BTC, LN, ETH, BNB, DASH, BCH) live on a ticker.
The other source is HULA, a newly introduced POS system (BCH only) and direct competitor to TBB run by BitcoinBCH.com - the same company who created the report. Despite being on-chain their transactions are private, not published and not verifiable by third parties outside BitcoinBCH.com
Two things stood out in the "reports", noted by multiple users (including vocal BCH proponents):
  • The non-BCH parts must have tx excluded and the report neglects to mention it (the total in their TBB analysis does not match what is reported on the TBB website.)
  • The BCH part has outliers included (e.g. BCH city conference in September with 35x the daily average)
The TBB website loads the historic tx data in the browser but hides transactions older than 7 days from being displayed, i.e. you can access more than 7 days worth of data if you understand JavaScript and can read the source code (source).

Hayden Otto's reaction

In direct response to me publishing these findings on btc, Hayden Otto - an employee at BitcoinBCH.com and the author of the report who also happens to be a moderator of /BitcoinCash - banned me immediately from said sub (source).
In subsequent discussion (which repeated for every monthly "report" which was flawed in the same ways as described above), Hayden responded using the same tactics:
"No data was removed"
"The guy is straight out lying. There is guaranteed no missing tx as the data was collected directly from the source." (source)
"Only data I considered non-retail was removed"
"I also had these data points and went through them to remove non-retail transactions, on both TravelbyBit and HULA." (source)
He admits to have removed non-BCH tx by "Game Ranger" because he considers them non-retail (source). He also implies they might be involved in money laundering and that TBB might fail their AML obligations in processing Game Ranger's transactions (source).
The report does not mention any data being excluded at all and he still fails to explain why several businesses that are clearly retail (e.g. restaurants, cafes, markets) had tx excluded (source).
"You are too late to prove I altered the data"
"[...] I recorded [the data] manually from https://travelbybit.com/stats/ over the month of September. The website only shows transactions from the last 7 days and then they disappear. No way for anyone to access stats beyond that." (source)
Fortunately you can, if you can read the website's source code. But you need to know a bit of JavaScript to verify it yourself, so not an ideal method to easily prove the claim of data exclusion to the public. But it laters turns out Hayden himself has found an easier way to achieve the same.
"The report can't be wrong because it has been audited."
In response to criticism about the flawed methodology in generating the September report, BitcoinBCH.com hired an accountant from a regional Bitcoin BCH startup to "audit" the October report. This is remarkable, because not only did their reported TBB totals still not match those from the TBB site - their result was mathematically impossible. How so? No subset of TBB transaction in that month sums up to the total they reported. So even if they excluded retail transactions at will, they still must have messed up the sum (source). Why didn't their auditor notice their mistake? She said she "conducted a review based on the TravelByBit data provided to her", i.e. the data acquisition and selection process was explicitly excluded from the audit (source).
"You are a 'pathetic liar', a 'desperate toll', an 'astroturf account' and 'a total dumb ass' and are 'pulling numbers out of your ass!'"
Since he has already banned me from the sub he moderates, he started to resort to ad hominems (source, source, source, source).

Proof of exclusion

I published raw data as extracted from the TBB site after each report for comparison. Hayden responded that I made those numbers up and that I was pulling numbers out of my ass.
Since he was under the impression that
"The website only shows transactions from the last 7 days and then they disappear. No way for anyone to access stats beyond that." (source)
he felt confident to claim that I would be
unable to provide a source for the [missing] data and/or prove that that data was not already included in the report. (source)
Luckily for us Hayden Otto seems to dislike his competitor TravelByBit so much that he attempted to reframe Bitcoin's RBF feature as a vulnerability specific to TBB PoS system (source).
While doublespending a merchant using the TBB PoS he wanted to prove that the merchant successfully registered the purchase as complete and thus exposed that the PoS sales history of TBB's merchants are available to the public (source), in his own words:
"You can literally access it from a public URL in the Web browser. There is no login or anything required, just type in the name of the merchant." (source)
As of yet it is unclear if this is intentional by TBB or if Hayden Ottos followed the rules of responsible disclosure before publishing this kind of data leak.
As it happens, those sale histories do not only include the merchant and time of purchases, they even include the address the funds were sent to (in case of on-chain payments).
This gives us an easy method to prove that the purchases from the TBB website missing in the reports belong to a specific retail business and actually happened - something that is impossible to prove for the alleged HULA txs.
In order to make it easier for you to verify it yourself, we'll focus on a single day in the dataset, September 17th, 2019 as an example:
  • Hayden Otto's report claims 20 tx and $713.00 in total for that day (source)
  • The TBB website listed 40 tx and a total of $1032.90 (daily summary)
  • Pick a merchant, e.g. "The Stand Desserts"
  • Use Hayden's "trick" to access that merchants public sale history at https://www.livingroomofsatoshi.com/merchanthistory/thestanddesserts, sort by date to find the 17th Sep 2019 and look for a transaction at 20:58 for $28. This proves that a purchase of said amount is associated with this specific retail business.
  • Paste the associated crypto on-chain address 17MrHiRcKzCyuKPtvtn7iZhAZxydX8raU9 in a blockchain explorer of your choice, e.g like this. This proves that a transfer of funds has actually happened.
I let software aggregate the TBB statistics with the public sale histories and you'll find at the bottom of this post a table with the on-chain addresses conveniently linked to blockchain explorers for our example date.
The total of all 40 tx is $1032.90 instead of the $713.00 reported by Hayden. 17 tx of those have a corresponding on-chain address and thus have undeniable proof of $758.10. Of the remaining 23, 22 are on Lightning and one had no merchant history available.
This is just for a single day, here is a comparison for the whole month.
Description Total
TBB Total $10,502
TBB wo. Game Ranger $5,407
TBB according to Hayden $3,737

What now?

The usual shills will respond in a predictive manner: The data must be fake even though its proof is on-chain, I would need to provide more data but HULA can be trusted without any proof, if you include outliers BCH comes out ahead, yada, yada.
But this is not important. I am not here to convince them and this post doesn't aim to.
The tx numbers we are talking about are less than 0.005% of Bitcoin's global volume. If you can increase adoption in your area by 100% by just buying 2 coffees more per day you get a rough idea about how irrelevant the numbers are in comparison.
What is relevant though and what this post aims to highlight is that BitcoinBCH.com and the media outlets around news.bitcoin.com flooding you with the BCH #1 narrative are playing dirty. They feel justified because they feel that Bitcoin/Core/Blockstream is playing dirty as well. I am not here to judge that but you as a reader of this sub should be aware that this is happening and that you are the target.
When BitcoinBCH.com excludes $1,000 Bitcoin tx because of high value but includes $15,000 BCH tx because they are made by "professionals", you should be sceptical.
When BitcoinBCH.com excludes game developers, travel businesses or craftsmen accepting Bitcoin because they don't have a physical store but include a lawyer practice accepting BCH, you should be sceptical.
When BitcoinBCH.com excludes restaurants, bars and supermarkets accepting Bitcoin and when pressed reiterate that they excluded non-retail businesses without ever explaning why a restaurant shouldn't be considered reatil, you should be sceptical.
When BitcoinBCH.com claims the reports have been audited but omit that the data acquisition was not part of the audit, you should be sceptical.
I expect that BitcoinBCH.com will stop removing transactions from TBB for their reports now that it has been shown that their exclusion can be provably uncovered. I also expect that HULA's BCH numbers will rise accordingly to maintain a similar difference.
Hayden Otto assumed that nobody could cross-check the TBB data. He was wrong. Nobody will be able to disprove his claims when HULA's BCH numbers rise as he continues to refuse their release. You should treat his claims accordingly.
As usual, do your own research and draw your own conclusion. Sorry for the long read.

TLDR

  • BitcoinBCH.com claimed no transactions were removed from the TBB dataset in their BCH #1 reports and that is impossible to prove the opposite.
  • Hayden Otto's reveals in a double spend attempt that a TBB merchant's sale history can be accessed publicly including the merchant's on-chain addresses.
  • (For example,) this table shows 40 tx listed on the TBB site on Sep 17th, including their on-chain addresses where applicable. The BitcoinBCH.com report lists only 20 tx for the same day.
  • (Most days and every months so far has had BTC transactions excluded.)
  • (For September, TBB lists $10,502 yet the report only claims $3,737.
No. Date Merchant Asset Address Amount Total
1 17 Sep 19 09:28 LTD Espresso Lightning Unable to find merchant history. 4.50 4.50
2 17 Sep 19 09:40 LTD Espresso Binance Coin Unable to find merchant history. 4.50 9.00
3 17 Sep 19 13:22 Josh's IGA Murray Bridge West Ether 0x40fd53aa...b6de43c531 4.60 13.60
4 17 Sep 19 13:23 Nom Nom Korean Eatery Lightning lnbc107727...zkcqvvgklf 16.00 29.60
5 17 Sep 19 13:24 Nom Nom Korean Eatery Lightning lnbc100994...mkspwddgqw 15.00 44.60
6 17 Sep 19 14:02 Nom Nom Korean Eatery Binance Coin bnb1w5mwu9...552thl4ru5 30.00 74.60
7 17 Sep 19 15:19 Dollars and Sense (Fortitude Valley) Lightning lnbc134780...93cpanyxfg 2.00 76.60
8 17 Sep 19 15:34 Steph's Cafe Binance Coin bnb124hcjy...ss3pz9y3r8 57.50 134.10
9 17 Sep 19 19:37 The Stand Desserts Binance Coin bnb13f58s9...qqc7fxln7s 18.00 152.10
10 17 Sep 19 19:59 The Stand Desserts Lightning lnbc575880...48cpl0z06q 8.50 160.60
11 17 Sep 19 20:00 The Stand Desserts Lightning lnbc575770...t8spzjflym 8.50 169.10
12 17 Sep 19 20:13 The Stand Desserts Lightning lnbc202980...lgqp5ha8f4 3.00 172.10
13 17 Sep 19 20:21 The Stand Desserts Lightning lnbc577010...decq7r4p05 8.50 180.60
14 17 Sep 19 20:24 Fat Dumpling Lightning lnbc217145...9dsqpjjr6g 32.10 212.70
15 17 Sep 19 20:31 The Stand Desserts Lightning lnbc574530...wvcpp3pcen 8.50 221.20
16 17 Sep 19 20:33 The Stand Desserts Lightning lnbc540660...rpqpzgk8z0 8.00 229.20
17 17 Sep 19 20:37 The Stand Desserts Lightning lnbc128468...r8cqq50p5c 19.00 248.20
18 17 Sep 19 20:39 The Stand Desserts Lightning lnbc135220...cngp2zq6q4 2.00 250.20
19 17 Sep 19 20:45 The Stand Desserts Lightning lnbc574570...atcqg738p8 8.50 258.70
20 17 Sep 19 20:51 Fat Dumpling Lightning lnbc414190...8hcpg79h9a 61.20 319.90
21 17 Sep 19 20:53 The Stand Desserts Lightning lnbc135350...krqqp3cz8z 2.00 321.90
22 17 Sep 19 20:58 The Stand Desserts Bitcoin 17MrHiRcKz...ZxydX8raU9 28.00 349.90
23 17 Sep 19 21:02 The Stand Desserts Bitcoin 1Hwy8hCBff...iEh5fBsCWK 10.00 359.90
24 17 Sep 19 21:03 The Stand Desserts Lightning lnbc743810...dvqqnuunjq 11.00 370.90
25 17 Sep 19 21:04 The Stand Desserts Lightning lnbc114952...2vqpclm87p 17.00 387.90
26 17 Sep 19 21:10 The Stand Desserts Lightning lnbc169160...lpqqqt574c 2.50 390.40
27 17 Sep 19 21:11 The Stand Desserts Lightning lnbc575150...40qq9yuqmy 8.50 398.90
28 17 Sep 19 21:13 The Stand Desserts Lightning lnbc947370...qjcp3unr33 14.00 412.90
29 17 Sep 19 21:15 The Stand Desserts Binance Coin bnb1tc2vva...xppes5t7d0 16.00 428.90
30 17 Sep 19 21:16 Giardinetto Binance Coin bnb1auyep2...w64p6a6dlk 350.00 778.90
31 17 Sep 19 21:25 The Stand Desserts BCH 3H2iJaKNXH...5sxPk3t2tV 7.00 785.90
32 17 Sep 19 21:39 The Stand Desserts Binance Coin bnb17r7x3e...avaxwumc58 8.00 793.90
33 17 Sep 19 21:47 The Stand Desserts BCH 32kuPYT1tc...uFQwgsA5ku 18.00 811.90
34 17 Sep 19 21:52 The Stand Desserts BCH 3ELPvxtCSy...4QzvfVJsNZ 36.00 847.90
35 17 Sep 19 21:56 The Stand Desserts Lightning lnbc677740...acsp04sjeg 10.00 857.90
36 17 Sep 19 22:04 The Stand Desserts BCH 38b4wHg9cg...9L2WXC2BSK 54.00 911.90
37 17 Sep 19 22:16 The Stand Desserts Binance Coin bnb14lylhs...x6wz7kjzp5 18.00 929.90
38 17 Sep 19 22:21 The Stand Desserts BCH 3L8SK3Hr7u...F3htdSPxfL 90.00 1019.90
39 17 Sep 19 22:30 The Stand Desserts Binance Coin bnb19w6tle...774uknv57t 5.00 1024.90
40 17 Sep 19 22:48 The Stand Desserts BCH 3Qag8c4UYg...9EYuWzGjhs 8.00 1032.90
submitted by YeOldDoc to CryptoCurrency [link] [comments]

Technical: A Brief History of Payment Channels: from Satoshi to Lightning Network

Who cares about political tweets from some random country's president when payment channels are a much more interesting and are actually capable of carrying value?
So let's have a short history of various payment channel techs!

Generation 0: Satoshi's Broken nSequence Channels

Because Satoshi's Vision included payment channels, except his implementation sucked so hard we had to go fix it and added RBF as a by-product.
Originally, the plan for nSequence was that mempools would replace any transaction spending certain inputs with another transaction spending the same inputs, but only if the nSequence field of the replacement was larger.
Since 0xFFFFFFFF was the highest value that nSequence could get, this would mark a transaction as "final" and not replaceable on the mempool anymore.
In fact, this "nSequence channel" I will describe is the reason why we have this weird rule about nLockTime and nSequence. nLockTime actually only works if nSequence is not 0xFFFFFFFF i.e. final. If nSequence is 0xFFFFFFFF then nLockTime is ignored, because this if the "final" version of the transaction.
So what you'd do would be something like this:
  1. You go to a bar and promise the bartender to pay by the time the bar closes. Because this is the Bitcoin universe, time is measured in blockheight, so the closing time of the bar is indicated as some future blockheight.
  2. For your first drink, you'd make a transaction paying to the bartender for that drink, paying from some coins you have. The transaction has an nLockTime equal to the closing time of the bar, and a starting nSequence of 0. You hand over the transaction and the bartender hands you your drink.
  3. For your succeeding drink, you'd remake the same transaction, adding the payment for that drink to the transaction output that goes to the bartender (so that output keeps getting larger, by the amount of payment), and having an nSequence that is one higher than the previous one.
  4. Eventually you have to stop drinking. It comes down to one of two possibilities:
    • You drink until the bar closes. Since it is now the nLockTime indicated in the transaction, the bartender is able to broadcast the latest transaction and tells the bouncers to kick you out of the bar.
    • You wisely consider the state of your liver. So you re-sign the last transaction with a "final" nSequence of 0xFFFFFFFF i.e. the maximum possible value it can have. This allows the bartender to get his or her funds immediately (nLockTime is ignored if nSequence is 0xFFFFFFFF), so he or she tells the bouncers to let you out of the bar.
Now that of course is a payment channel. Individual payments (purchases of alcohol, so I guess buying coffee is not in scope for payment channels). Closing is done by creating a "final" transaction that is the sum of the individual payments. Sure there's no routing and channels are unidirectional and channels have a maximum lifetime but give Satoshi a break, he was also busy inventing Bitcoin at the time.
Now if you noticed I called this kind of payment channel "broken". This is because the mempool rules are not consensus rules, and cannot be validated (nothing about the mempool can be validated onchain: I sigh every time somebody proposes "let's make block size dependent on mempool size", mempool state cannot be validated by onchain data). Fullnodes can't see all of the transactions you signed, and then validate that the final one with the maximum nSequence is the one that actually is used onchain. So you can do the below:
  1. Become friends with Jihan Wu, because he owns >51% of the mining hashrate (he totally reorged Bitcoin to reverse the Binance hack right?).
  2. Slip Jihan Wu some of the more interesting drinks you're ordering as an incentive to cooperate with you. So say you end up ordering 100 drinks, you split it with Jihan Wu and give him 50 of the drinks.
  3. When the bar closes, Jihan Wu quickly calls his mining rig and tells them to mine the version of your transaction with nSequence 0. You know, that first one where you pay for only one drink.
  4. Because fullnodes cannot validate nSequence, they'll accept even the nSequence=0 version and confirm it, immutably adding you paying for a single alcoholic drink to the blockchain.
  5. The bartender, pissed at being cheated, takes out a shotgun from under the bar and shoots at you and Jihan Wu.
  6. Jihan Wu uses his mystical chi powers (actually the combined exhaust from all of his mining rigs) to slow down the shotgun pellets, making them hit you as softly as petals drifting in the wind.
  7. The bartender mutters some words, clothes ripping apart as he or she (hard to believe it could be a she but hey) turns into a bear, ready to maul you for cheating him or her of the payment for all the 100 drinks you ordered from him or her.
  8. Steely-eyed, you stand in front of the bartender-turned-bear, daring him to touch you. You've watched Revenant, you know Leonardo di Caprio could survive a bear mauling, and if some posh actor can survive that, you know you can too. You make a pose. "Drunken troll logic attack!"
  9. I think I got sidetracked here.
Lessons learned?

Spilman Channels

Incentive-compatible time-limited unidirectional channel; or, Satoshi's Vision, Fixed (if transaction malleability hadn't been a problem, that is).
Now, we know the bartender will turn into a bear and maul you if you try to cheat the payment channel, and now that we've revealed you're good friends with Jihan Wu, the bartender will no longer accept a payment channel scheme that lets one you cooperate with a miner to cheat the bartender.
Fortunately, Jeremy Spilman proposed a better way that would not let you cheat the bartender.
First, you and the bartender perform this ritual:
  1. You get some funds and create a transaction that pays to a 2-of-2 multisig between you and the bartender. You don't broadcast this yet: you just sign it and get its txid.
  2. You create another transaction that spends the above transaction. This transaction (the "backoff") has an nLockTime equal to the closing time of the bar, plus one block. You sign it and give this backoff transaction (but not the above transaction) to the bartender.
  3. The bartender signs the backoff and gives it back to you. It is now valid since it's spending a 2-of-2 of you and the bartender, and both of you have signed the backoff transaction.
  4. Now you broadcast the first transaction onchain. You and the bartender wait for it to be deeply confirmed, then you can start ordering.
The above is probably vaguely familiar to LN users. It's the funding process of payment channels! The first transaction, the one that pays to a 2-of-2 multisig, is the funding transaction that backs the payment channel funds.
So now you start ordering in this way:
  1. For your first drink, you create a transaction spending the funding transaction output and sending the price of the drink to the bartender, with the rest returning to you.
  2. You sign the transaction and pass it to the bartender, who serves your first drink.
  3. For your succeeding drinks, you recreate the same transaction, adding the price of the new drink to the sum that goes to the bartender and reducing the money returned to you. You sign the transaction and give it to the bartender, who serves you your next drink.
  4. At the end:
    • If the bar closing time is reached, the bartender signs the latest transaction, completing the needed 2-of-2 signatures and broadcasting this to the Bitcoin network. Since the backoff transaction is the closing time + 1, it can't get used at closing time.
    • If you decide you want to leave early because your liver is crying, you just tell the bartender to go ahead and close the channel (which the bartender can do at any time by just signing and broadcasting the latest transaction: the bartender won't do that because he or she is hoping you'll stay and drink more).
    • If you ended up just hanging around the bar and never ordering, then at closing time + 1 you broadcast the backoff transaction and get your funds back in full.
Now, even if you pass 50 drinks to Jihan Wu, you can't give him the first transaction (the one which pays for only one drink) and ask him to mine it: it's spending a 2-of-2 and the copy you have only contains your own signature. You need the bartender's signature to make it valid, but he or she sure as hell isn't going to cooperate in something that would lose him or her money, so a signature from the bartender validating old state where he or she gets paid less isn't going to happen.
So, problem solved, right? Right? Okay, let's try it. So you get your funds, put them in a funding tx, get the backoff tx, confirm the funding tx...
Once the funding transaction confirms deeply, the bartender laughs uproariously. He or she summons the bouncers, who surround you menacingly.
"I'm refusing service to you," the bartender says.
"Fine," you say. "I was leaving anyway;" You smirk. "I'll get back my money with the backoff transaction, and posting about your poor service on reddit so you get negative karma, so there!"
"Not so fast," the bartender says. His or her voice chills your bones. It looks like your exploitation of the Satoshi nSequence payment channel is still fresh in his or her mind. "Look at the txid of the funding transaction that got confirmed."
"What about it?" you ask nonchalantly, as you flip open your desktop computer and open a reputable blockchain explorer.
What you see shocks you.
"What the --- the txid is different! You--- you changed my signature?? But how? I put the only copy of my private key in a sealed envelope in a cast-iron box inside a safe buried in the Gobi desert protected by a clan of nomads who have dedicated their lives and their childrens' lives to keeping my private key safe in perpetuity!"
"Didn't you know?" the bartender asks. "The components of the signature are just very large numbers. The sign of one of the signature components can be changed, from positive to negative, or negative to positive, and the signature will remain valid. Anyone can do that, even if they don't know the private key. But because Bitcoin includes the signatures in the transaction when it's generating the txid, this little change also changes the txid." He or she chuckles. "They say they'll fix it by separating the signatures from the transaction body. They're saying that these kinds of signature malleability won't affect transaction ids anymore after they do this, but I bet I can get my good friend Jihan Wu to delay this 'SepSig' plan for a good while yet. Friendly guy, this Jihan Wu, it turns out all I had to do was slip him 51 drinks and he was willing to mine a tx with the signature signs flipped." His or her grin widens. "I'm afraid your backoff transaction won't work anymore, since it spends a txid that is not existent and will never be confirmed. So here's the deal. You pay me 99% of the funds in the funding transaction, in exchange for me signing the transaction that spends with the txid that you see onchain. Refuse, and you lose 100% of the funds and every other HODLer, including me, benefits from the reduction in coin supply. Accept, and you get to keep 1%. I lose nothing if you refuse, so I won't care if you do, but consider the difference of getting zilch vs. getting 1% of your funds." His or her eyes glow. "GENUFLECT RIGHT NOW."
Lesson learned?

CLTV-protected Spilman Channels

Using CLTV for the backoff branch.
This variation is simply Spilman channels, but with the backoff transaction replaced with a backoff branch in the SCRIPT you pay to. It only became possible after OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY (CLTV) was enabled in 2015.
Now as we saw in the Spilman Channels discussion, transaction malleability means that any pre-signed offchain transaction can easily be invalidated by flipping the sign of the signature of the funding transaction while the funding transaction is not yet confirmed.
This can be avoided by simply putting any special requirements into an explicit branch of the Bitcoin SCRIPT. Now, the backoff branch is supposed to create a maximum lifetime for the payment channel, and prior to the introduction of OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY this could only be done by having a pre-signed nLockTime transaction.
With CLTV, however, we can now make the branches explicit in the SCRIPT that the funding transaction pays to.
Instead of paying to a 2-of-2 in order to set up the funding transaction, you pay to a SCRIPT which is basically "2-of-2, OR this singlesig after a specified lock time".
With this, there is no backoff transaction that is pre-signed and which refers to a specific txid. Instead, you can create the backoff transaction later, using whatever txid the funding transaction ends up being confirmed under. Since the funding transaction is immutable once confirmed, it is no longer possible to change the txid afterwards.

Todd Micropayment Networks

The old hub-spoke model (that isn't how LN today actually works).
One of the more direct predecessors of the Lightning Network was the hub-spoke model discussed by Peter Todd. In this model, instead of payers directly having channels to payees, payers and payees connect to a central hub server. This allows any payer to pay any payee, using the same channel for every payee on the hub. Similarly, this allows any payee to receive from any payer, using the same channel.
Remember from the above Spilman example? When you open a channel to the bartender, you have to wait around for the funding tx to confirm. This will take an hour at best. Now consider that you have to make channels for everyone you want to pay to. That's not very scalable.
So the Todd hub-spoke model has a central "clearing house" that transport money from payers to payees. The "Moonbeam" project takes this model. Of course, this reveals to the hub who the payer and payee are, and thus the hub can potentially censor transactions. Generally, though, it was considered that a hub would more efficiently censor by just not maintaining a channel with the payer or payee that it wants to censor (since the money it owned in the channel would just be locked uselessly if the hub won't process payments to/from the censored user).
In any case, the ability of the central hub to monitor payments means that it can surveill the payer and payee, and then sell this private transactional data to third parties. This loss of privacy would be intolerable today.
Peter Todd also proposed that there might be multiple hubs that could transport funds to each other on behalf of their users, providing somewhat better privacy.
Another point of note is that at the time such networks were proposed, only unidirectional (Spilman) channels were available. Thus, while one could be a payer, or payee, you would have to use separate channels for your income versus for your spending. Worse, if you wanted to transfer money from your income channel to your spending channel, you had to close both and reshuffle the money between them, both onchain activities.

Poon-Dryja Lightning Network

Bidirectional two-participant channels.
The Poon-Dryja channel mechanism has two important properties:
Both the original Satoshi and the two Spilman variants are unidirectional: there is a payer and a payee, and if the payee wants to do a refund, or wants to pay for a different service or product the payer is providing, then they can't use the same unidirectional channel.
The Poon-Dryjam mechanism allows channels, however, to be bidirectional instead: you are not a payer or a payee on the channel, you can receive or send at any time as long as both you and the channel counterparty are online.
Further, unlike either of the Spilman variants, there is no time limit for the lifetime of a channel. Instead, you can keep the channel open for as long as you want.
Both properties, together, form a very powerful scaling property that I believe most people have not appreciated. With unidirectional channels, as mentioned before, if you both earn and spend over the same network of payment channels, you would have separate channels for earning and spending. You would then need to perform onchain operations to "reverse" the directions of your channels periodically. Secondly, since Spilman channels have a fixed lifetime, even if you never used either channel, you would have to periodically "refresh" it by closing it and reopening.
With bidirectional, indefinite-lifetime channels, you may instead open some channels when you first begin managing your own money, then close them only after your lawyers have executed your last will and testament on how the money in your channels get divided up to your heirs: that's just two onchain transactions in your entire lifetime. That is the potentially very powerful scaling property that bidirectional, indefinite-lifetime channels allow.
I won't discuss the transaction structure needed for Poon-Dryja bidirectional channels --- it's complicated and you can easily get explanations with cute graphics elsewhere.
There is a weakness of Poon-Dryja that people tend to gloss over (because it was fixed very well by RustyReddit):
Another thing I want to emphasize is that while the Lightning Network paper and many of the earlier presentations developed from the old Peter Todd hub-and-spoke model, the modern Lightning Network takes the logical conclusion of removing a strict separation between "hubs" and "spokes". Any node on the Lightning Network can very well work as a hub for any other node. Thus, while you might operate as "mostly a payer", "mostly a forwarding node", "mostly a payee", you still end up being at least partially a forwarding node ("hub") on the network, at least part of the time. This greatly reduces the problems of privacy inherent in having only a few hub nodes: forwarding nodes cannot get significantly useful data from the payments passing through them, because the distance between the payer and the payee can be so large that it would be likely that the ultimate payer and the ultimate payee could be anyone on the Lightning Network.
Lessons learned?

Future

After LN, there's also the Decker-Wattenhofer Duplex Micropayment Channels (DMC). This post is long enough as-is, LOL. But for now, it uses a novel "decrementing nSequence channel", using the new relative-timelock semantics of nSequence (not the broken one originally by Satoshi). It actually uses multiple such "decrementing nSequence" constructs, terminating in a pair of Spilman channels, one in both directions (thus "duplex"). Maybe I'll discuss it some other time.
The realization that channel constructions could actually hold more channel constructions inside them (the way the Decker-Wattenhofer puts a pair of Spilman channels inside a series of "decrementing nSequence channels") lead to the further thought behind Burchert-Decker-Wattenhofer channel factories. Basically, you could host multiple two-participant channel constructs inside a larger multiparticipant "channel" construct (i.e. host multiple channels inside a factory).
Further, we have the Decker-Russell-Osuntokun or "eltoo" construction. I'd argue that this is "nSequence done right". I'll write more about this later, because this post is long enough.
Lessons learned?
submitted by almkglor to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Major Bitcoin Scams Running Through Fake Binance Youtube Livestreams

Major Bitcoin Scams Running Through Fake Binance Youtube Livestreams
Hey guys. So I'm an avid support of Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. I run my own youtube channel trying to share news and information shared publicly about the industry when I a couple weeks ago was looking around on youtube and came across what appeared to be a "Binance" livestream. Upon a very thorough investigation and talking with the support staff at Binance it is concluded that these are massive scams. Of the 4 I have listed below in this screenshot I have confirmed at least 2 of them people have fallen prey and sent them Bitcoins in thinking it is a giveaway that is going to give them Bitcoins back. There are supposedly thousands of people watching these livestreams.
Binance told me a couple weeks ago that they were taking care of it. Now there's even more of these channels going up and the last time I spoke to a rep from Binance they said they informed youtube and are trying to take care of it. It's been week after week and frankly, even though I'm not the one being scammed, this disgusts me that these people are getting away with it AND it also makes the industry look shady and puts a bad reputation on Binance, which to be perfectly honest I don't want to have as I feel Binance is a great exchange overall and I want to see them doing well.
I even tried tagging their Binance twitter account and they gave me no time of day. I'm resorting to here on Reddit. I'm not very familiar with using Reddit but people have told me there's great communities here.
This problem is only going to get worse. I've been trying to get help to shut these fake channels down. Any ideas guys?
Also here's a youtube video I made going over how they're scamming people from a previous livestream. Was hoping this would raise some more awareness and gain some more traction for both Youtube's eyes and any potential victims.
Youtube Explanation - Video link
https://preview.redd.it/nlg258d409741.jpg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8ff61c94c43f5fbb61fd0173451b7379f51a42d5
submitted by Atlas4Real to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

04-16 13:44 - 'Legit discussion: Why is bitcoin mainnet not moving forward while other crypto projects are?' (self.Bitcoin) by /u/borgqueenx removed from /r/Bitcoin within 241-251min

'''
Okay and before you flame me, i realise that lightning network(s) are in development, but i dont get why bitcoin still hasnt done really anything in the last 3 years ive been in crypto. Ethereum is also slow in development but releases new versions occasionally. But other projects go blazing fast in developing scaling, smart contracts etc.
So, the key point of discussion is, why is bitcoin still the same old? It can be used as store of value, sure. But why is it not evolving into more? Less fees to be paid? Faster transactions? Perhaps even smart contracts? Or easier ways to trade bitcoin on decentralised exchanges instead of requiring central exchanges? (Because bitcoin and other crypto assets were build to keep by users, but binance and coinbase are pretty much banks by now instead of exchanges)
Hope to have a good discussion or explanation, thanks anyway fellow crypto adventurers!
'''
Legit discussion: Why is bitcoin mainnet not moving forward while other crypto projects are?
Go1dfish undelete link
unreddit undelete link
Author: borgqueenx
submitted by removalbot to removalbot [link] [comments]

US Tax Guide for ETH and other cryptocurrencies

Introduction:  
Greetings, fellow ethtraders! Happy New Year! In the next few months, taxpayers across the US will be filing their 2017 tax returns. As an Enrolled Agent and a ETH/cryptocurrency investor and enthusiast, I wanted to write up a brief guide on how your investments in ETH and other cryptocurrencies are taxed in the US.
 
 
1. Are ETH/cryptocurrency realized gains taxable?
Yes. The IRS treats virtual currency (such as cryptocurrency) as property. That means if you sell ETH, BTC, or any other cryptocurrency that has appreciated in value, you have realized a capital gain and must pay taxes on this income. If you held the position for one year or less, it is a short-term capital gain which is taxed at your ordinary income tax rate. If you held the position for more than one year, it is a long-term capital gain which is taxed at your long-term capital gains tax rate. In most cases, this is 15%, but could also be 0% or 20% depending on your specific ordinary income tax bracket.
 
2. If I sell my ETH for USD on Coinbase but do not transfer the USD from Coinbase to my bank account, am I still taxed?
Yes. The only thing that matters is that you sold the ETH, which creates a taxable transaction. Whether you transfer the USD to your bank account or not does not matter.
 
3. If I use my ETH to buy OMG or another cryptocurrency, is this a taxable transaction?
Most likely yes. See #4 below for a more detailed explanation. If assuming crypto to crypto trades are not able to be like-kind exchanged, then continue on to the next paragraph here.
This is actually two different transactions. The first transaction is selling your ETH for USD. The second transaction is buying the OMG with your USD. You must manually calculate these amounts. For example, I buy 1 ETH for $600 on Coinbase. Later on, the price of 1 ETH rises to $700. I transfer that 1 ETH to Bittrex and use it to buy 37 OMG. I have to report a capital gain of $100 because of this transaction. My total cost basis for the 37 OMG I purchased is $700.
 
4. If I use my ETH to buy OMG or other cryptocurrency, could that be considered a tax-free like-kind exchange?
Probably not. The new tax law says that like-kind exchanges only pertain to real estate transactions. This was done with Section 13303, which replaced “property” with “real property” for all of Section 1031 (page 72 near the bottom). My personal interpretation:
In 2018 and going forward, cryptocurrencies can definitely not be like-kind exchanged.
In 2017 and before, it is a very gray area. I personally am not taking the position that they can be like-kind exchanged, because if the IRS went after a taxpayer who did this, the IRS would probably win and the taxpayer would owe taxes, interest, and probably penalties on every single little gain made from trading one cryptocurrency for another.
Here is a great interpretation of why trading cryptocurrency for cryptocurrency is probably not a like-kind transaction.
In my opinion, the biggest factor is that like-kind exchanges must be reported on Form 8824 and not just ignored. Therefore, if a taxpayer is claiming like-kind exchanges on crypto to crypto exchanges, he or she would have to fill out a Form 8824 for each individual transaction of crypto to crypto, which would be absolutely cumbersome if there are hundreds or thousands of such trades.
Here is another article about like-kind exchanges.
Here is the American Institute of CPAs' letter to the IRS, dated June 10, 2016, asking them to release guidance on whether crypto to crypto can be like-kind exchanged or not. The IRS has not responded to the letter.
 
5. How do I calculate the realized capital gain or loss on the sale of my cryptocurrency?
The realized gain or loss is your total proceeds from the sale minus what you purchased those positions for (your cost basis). For example, you bought 1 ETH for $300 in June of 2017. In December of 2017, you sold that 1 ETH for $800. Your realized gain would be $800 - $300 = $500. Since you held it for one year or less, the $500 would be a short-term capital gain taxed at your ordinary income tax rate.
 
6. Which ETH's cost basis do I use if I have multiple purchases?
The cost basis reporting method is up to you. For example, I buy my first ETH at $300, a second ETH at $530, and a third ETH at $400. Later on, I sell one ETH for $800. I can use:
FIFO (first in first out) - cost basis would the first ETH, $300, which would result in a gain of $500.
LIFO (last in first out) - cost basis would be the third ETH, $400, which would result in a gain of $400.
Average cost - cost basis would be the average of the three ETH, $410, which would result in a gain of $390.
Specific identification - I can just choose which coin's cost basis to use. For example, I can choose the second ETH's cost basis, $530, which would result in the lowest capital gains possible of $270.
 
7. If I end up with a net capital loss, can I claim this on my tax return?
Capital gains and capital losses are netted on your tax return. If the net result of this is a capital loss, you may offset it against ordinary income on your tax return, but only at a maximum of $3,000 per year. The remaining losses are carried forward until you use them up.
 
8. What is the tax rate on my capital gains?
If long-term, the tax rate is 0%, 15%, or 20%, depending on your ordinary income tax bracket. If short-term, the tax bracket you’ll be in will depend on your total income and deductions. The ordinary income tax brackets are 10%, 15%, 25%, 28%, 33%, 35%, and 39.6% in 2017 and 10%, 12%, 22%, 24%, 32%, 35%, and 37% in 2018 and going forward.
Here are the 2017 and 2018 ordinary income tax brackets.
Here are the 2017 and 2018 long-term capital gains tax brackets.
Here is a detailed article on how the calculation of long-term capital gains tax work and how you can take advantage of the 0% long-term capital gains rate, if applicable.
 
9. If I mine ETH or any other cryptocurrency, is this taxable?
Yes. IRS Notice 2014-21 states that mining cryptocurrency is taxable. For example, if you mined $7,000 worth of ETH in 2017, you must report $7,000 of income on your 2017 tax return. For many taxpayers, this will be reported on your Schedule C, and you will most likely owe self-employment taxes on this income as well. The $7,000 becomes the cost basis in your ETH position.
 
10. How do I calculate income for the cryptocurrency I mined?
This is the approach I would take. Say I mined 1 ETH on December 31, 2017. I would look up the daily historical prices for ETH and average the high and low prices for ETH on December 31, 2017, which is ($760.35 + $710.12) / 2 = $735.24. I would report $735.24 of income on my tax return. This would also be the cost basis of the 1 ETH I mined.
 
11. Can I deduct mining expenses on my tax return?
If you are reporting the income from mining on Schedule C, then you can deduct expenses on Schedule C as well. You can deduct the portion of your electricity costs allocated to mining, and then you depreciate the cost of your mining rig over time (probably over five years). Section 179 also allows for the full deduction of the cost of certain equipment in year 1, so you could choose to do that if you wanted to instead.
 
12. If I receive ETH or other cryptocurrency as a payment for my business, is this taxable?
Yes. Similar to mining, your income would be what the value of the coins you received was. This would also be your cost basis in the coins.
 
13. If I received Bitcoin Cash as a result of the hard fork on August 1, 2017, is this taxable?
Most likely yes. For example, if you owned 1 Bitcoin and received 1 Bitcoin Cash on August 1, 2017 as a result of the hard fork, your income would be the value of 1 Bitcoin Cash on that date. Bitcoin.tax uses a value of $277. This value would also be your cost basis in the position. Any other hard forks would probably be treated similarly. Airdrops may be treated similarly as well, in the IRS' view.
Here are a couple more good articles about reporting the Bitcoin Cash fork as taxable ordinary income. The second one goes into depth and cites a US Supreme Court decision as precedent: one, two
 
14. If I use ETH, BTC, or other cryptocurrency to purchase goods or services, is this a taxable transaction?
Yes. It would be treated as selling your cryptocurrency for USD, and then using that USD to purchase those goods or services. This is because the IRS treats cryptocurrency as property and not currency.
 
15. Are cryptocurrencies subject to the wash sale rule?
Probably not. Section 1091 only applies to stock or securities. Cryptocurrencies are not classified as stocks or securities. Therefore, you could sell your ETH at a loss, repurchase it immediately, and still realize this loss on your tax return, whereas you cannot do the same with a stock. Please see this link for more information.
 
16. What if I hold cryptocurrency on an exchange based outside of the US?
There are two separate foreign account reporting requirements: FBAR and FATCA.
A FBAR must be filed if you held more than $10,000 on an exchange based outside of the US at any point during the tax year.
A Form 8938 (FATCA) must be filed if you held more than $75,000 on an exchange based outside of the US at any point during the tax year, or more than $50,000 on the last day of the tax year.
The penalties are severe for not filing these two forms if you are required to. Please see the second half of this post for more information on foreign account reporting.
 
17. What are the tax implications of gifting cryptocurrency?
Small gifts of cryptocurrency do not have a tax implication for the gift giver or for the recipient. The recipient would retain the gift giver's old cost basis, so it could be a good idea for the gift giver to provide records of the original cost basis to the recipient as well (or else the recipient would have to assume a cost basis of $0 if the recipient ever sells the cryptocurrency).
Large gifts of cryptocurrency could start having gift and estate tax implications on the giver if the value exceeds more than $14,000 (in 2017) or $15,000 (in 2018) per year per recipient.
Here's a good article on Investopedia on this issue.
An important exception applies if the gift giver gives cryptocurrency that has a cost basis that is higher than the market value at the time of the gift. Please see the middle of this post for more information on that.
 
18. Where can I learn even more about cryptocurrency taxation?
Unchained Podcast: The Tax Rules That Have Crypto Users Aghast
IRS Notice 2014-21
Great reddit post from tax attorney Tyson Cross from 2014
 
19. Are there any websites that you recommend in helping me with all of this?
Yes - I have used bitcoin.tax and highly recommend it. You can import directly from an exchange to the website using API, and/or export a .csv/excel file from the exchange and import it into the website. The exchanges I successfully imported from were Coinbase, GDAX, Bittrex, and Binance. The result is a .csv or other file that you can import into your tax software.
I have also heard good things about cointracking.info but have not personally used it myself.
 
20. Taxation is theft!
I can't help you there.
 
 
That is the summary I have for now. There have been a lot of excellent cryptocurrency tax guides on reddit, such as this one, this one, and this one, but I wanted to post my short summary guide on ethtrader which hopefully answers some of the questions you all may have about US taxation of ETH and other cryptocurrencies. Please let me know if you have any more questions, and I’d be happy to answer them to the best of my ability. Thank you!
Regarding edits: I have made many edits to my post since I originally posted it. Please refresh to see the latest edits to my guide. Thank you.
 
Disclaimer:
The information contained within this post is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended to substitute for obtaining tax, accounting, or financial advice from a professional.
Any U.S. federal tax advice contained in this post is not intended to be used for the purpose of avoiding penalties under U.S. federal tax law.
Presentation of the information via the Internet is not intended to create, and receipt does not constitute, an advisor-client relationship. Internet users are advised not to act upon this information without seeking the service of a tax professional.
submitted by Nubboi to ethtrader [link] [comments]

Dxchain Alkademy - All about Mainnet?

Dxchain Alkademy - All about Mainnet?

Dxchain Mainnet

Recently, Dxchain team announced the launch of Dxchain project's mainnet alpha. You can find the article containing the release here.

In this article, the team summarized briefly on what mainnet entails as quoted below:

It is well known that mainnet is the fundamental of a blockchain project, cryptocurrency is not a real blockchain technology until the Mainnet launch. Any concepts, ideas or theories are not realizable. DxChain has been committed to building a secure and efficient decentralized big data storage and computing network from the beginning. The construction, development and performance of DxChain network are what DxChain engineers caring about. The release of DxChain Mainnet Alpha represents that DxChain has basically completed the construction of the public chain framework, in which smart contracts, storage contracts, DPoS consensus algorithms, mining and other functions have been developed; also represents DxChain's transformation from cryptocurrency to a real public chain.

The explanation is concise enough for an average crypto user to understand what mainnet is. In this article, I will try to expand a bit farther on the idea of mainnet and why it is necessary for a project like DxchainNetwork to have a mainnet.

In the forum discussion I started here, I gathered knowledge of how mainnet works which gave me the clear insight of what I needed to know. Firstly, let us take a deeper look of what a mainnet is.

What Is A Mainnet?

Before now, On July 8, Dxchain launched her testnet and officially announced it here. It evidenced that the Dxchain Team had the prototype of the project up for running. That brings me to contrasting between Mainnet and Testnet. A Mainnet stands for the "Main Network" is the “real” cryptocurrency network where testnet represents a dummy alternatively network for the purposes of testing only. The cryptocurrency coins/token generated on testnet mostly aren't real since they do not have any monetary value as compared to that of mainnet with monetary value.

The functionality of transferring a digital currency between the parties involved is rendered on the mainnet. It is on the mainnet that the decentralized applications are developed and deployed.

According to Binance Academy ,Mainnet is the term used to describe when a blockchain protocol is fully developed and deployed, meaning that cryptocurrency transactions are being broadcasted, verified, and recorded on a distributed ledger technology (blockchain).
In cryptocurrencies, mainnets are the end products in blockchain projects that make it possible for transactions to be carried out. It also undergoes changes from time to time when there is need for updates or review. Before an investors makes his decision to invest in an Initial Coin Offering (ICO), it appears very crucial to be sure the blockchain project has a mainnet. Both mainnet or a testnet indicate the seriousness of a project as they affect the price of a cryptocurrency in one way or another.

Does Mainnet Affect Price of coin?

On Dxchain's telegram communuty, I have witnessed several users asking questions like "Admin, Why the pump?, "Admin, price is high. Why! and so on. It is obvious there are so many who seem not having the right information before investing in a coin resulting in them either losing or missing out of good projects. This accounts for why this article is necessary. Continuous upgrades and revision of the mainnet function is a must if a cryptocurrency project is to enjoy wide success in terms of rising price which I believe the Dxchain Team have in their routine plan board. For instance, Bitcoin is one project that has enjoyed immense success in cryptocurrency environment, in part because of Mainnet upgrades.

Recently, the top cryptocurrency by market capitalization launched Lightning Network -a mainnet feature that added a second layer on the blockchain. The Off-chain solution was a significant update intended to make BTC more scalable thus allowing the blockchain to handle more transactions per second.`

Conclusion

In conclusion, a mainnet launch is a planned and or defining time for a blockchain project to open to public and commence mass adaptation. When a blockchain project team is ready to roll out their official end product, they will carry out a “mainnet launch”, putting the product into actual production and operations.


Resources
Reference 1
Reference 2
Website
Telegram
Reddit
submitted by Bobelr to DxChainNetwork [link] [comments]

The Nuts and Bolts of Tether Cartel

I'm not sure this will be kept live, but FWIW if you really want to know more about tether, start here: https://archive.is/lk1lH
In that link you will find explanations to very "strange" things, including the fact that both Erik Vorhees and Roger Ver are defending Bitfinex and Tether (see URL in their names.)
In the link you find that RV invested in several companies that he has influence, such as Kraken, Binance and Bitfinex. The tether cartel is not a bitcoin cartel, it is a multi-altcoin cartel. It is a cycled pump and dump scam around a subset of coins pushed by key-people amidst it, notably: BCH, ETC, DASH, and some more.
Now, to have just a small glimpse of the sheer amount of manipulation going on, it is only funny that in rBTC (the sub that promotes BCH and bashes BTC daily selling the snake-oil "flippening") users have been in constant propaganda against Adam Back and others for talking about Tether. But, "strangely", they up vote RV to heavens even when he clearly defends Tether and invested in the companies behind it. Double standards at its best.
Please don't trust me, I beg you, simply go and read the archived links.
submitted by TastyRatio to CryptoCurrency [link] [comments]

AMA Wrap-up & Summary

A very big thank you to everyone who participated in FinNexus’s first ever AMA session in the Wanchain Telegram! We were very pleased with the level of enthusiasm from AMA participants! We’re sorry to say that we weren’t able to answer every single question as we received close to 80 questions, and many of them were similar. However, we did our best to identify all the unique questions and answer them all as fully as possible. We have also selected the top ten 🏆🏆🏆winning questions🏆🏆🏆 of the AMA who’s askers will be receiving $20.00 worth of FNC each at the Wanchain address they submitted after the token generation event scheduled in January.
(Feel free to ask any other questions in response to this post!)

TOP TEN QUESTIONS:

1.🏆 What’s special about Finnexus vs. others in the space? @oluap5773
Our closest competitors are traditional financial institutions which offer low risk, non blockchain based stable return and fixed return products. Our other competitors would be platforms such as Binance and Compound which offer centralized or decentralized stable return products based on crypto lending businesses.
FinNexus has a unique focus on assets with real value built on blockchain infrastructure, which is rare in our other DeFi projects. Unlike Binance and Compound whose stable return products are based on crypto lending businesses, the assets we issue include those based on both real world and crypto businesses, which gives users access to reliable assets which are not correlated with the performance of crypto markets. And unlike traditional institutions, all our products are built on blockchain, which enables them to make use of all the blockchain’s advantages.
2. 🏆 What do you think of the future of DeFi in this space? @salmanmbstu96
Our expectation of the future DeFi is mainly on the application level rather than a technical one.
  1. Borrowing and Lending cannot be everything about DeFi. The growth of the DeFi should be largely diversified to other assets and business models.
  2. The risks in the DeFi world is similar, in other words, most of the DeFi models are facing the same systematic risks, which are with high risk and high expected return characteristics. In cases when the bitcoin collapses, every businesses and scenarios will be affected. This is not healthy.
  3. The DeFi applications are not so user-friendly. One has to take some time to learn how to deal with one decentralized product.
A leading project in the future should have the ability to solve the problems above. Blockchain is a great technology, while the combination with finance cannot avoid the basic logic and be isolated from the successful scenarios and models we built. Different models here mean different application scenarios in the financial world, like the equity rights, debenture rights, derivatives or other beneficiary rights.
The centralized or decentralized cannot be questions like yes or no. During the process of development, there may be something in between. On one hand it is built in a decentralized way and smart contracts are triggered automatically; while on the other hand, it is adapting the realistic that some parts of transactions or measurements must be under centralized regulations. We would like to call it Open Finance, as it is open to both the crypto assets on the blockchain, and the assets off the chain while restructuring their parts in a decentralized way.
In the future, we believe that there will be leading projects, that can bridge the blockchain technology and real world assets, diversify the systematic risks while attracting more users, and be user friendly that the nonprofessional may easily operate.
3. 🏆 Give me reason’s why should I invest in #FinNexus? @cryptococuk01
I hope you read the write paper of FinNexus and got understandings on what FinNexus is about to do. FNC will be the sole token in the FinNexus ecosystem. It is a kind of hybrid token, like a utility token but also benefiting from FinNexus development.
FinNexus will work as the financial product supermarket, Broker, Investment Banker or something alike. It will gain revenue directly from its operations.
Holders of FNC is eligible to the following rights or benefits (will be explained in details on the FinNexus official websites):
1)Rights of higher rate of returns on tokenized products; 2)Rights to invest in tokenized products with lower cost; 3)Benefits on the discount on the transaction commissions; 4)Derivative rights, like early settlement, resale or interest swaps; 5)Rights to interact with WAN; 6)Benefits on the FinNexus’ development; the revenue of FinNexus is from: Underwriting; Investment banking; Market making; Transaction commissions; Investment in tokenized products.
4. 🏆 How can FinNexus goal be explained in layman’s terms? @iamthethirdkind
You can actually get a clue from the project’s name ‘FinNexus’. The name is quite straightforward. FinNexus is the combination of the words ‘Finance’ and ‘Nexus’. It means financial connections. I will explain that in 3 aspects:
  1. To asset owners
Finance here includes the ‘traditional’ and the ‘decentralized’ and traditional finance is only traditional compared to DeFi. Here FinNexus is aiming at providing a solution, which we call it a protocol, where one can link the traditional financial world with the blockchain technology in an efficient, transparent and feasible way. For example, one with assets that have good expected cash flows will find a way to easily tokenize the assets on FinNexus.
  1. To users FinNexus will act as a financial product supermarket. Right now, the DeFi world has a problem that almost all of the crypto assets or financial products bear the same systematic risks, which means when the Bitcoin price collapses, every kind will join the plummet and even the financial models will cease to be valid. One of the reasons is that all assets are purely crypto-born. Moreover, the crypto interface is not so easy for a nonprofessional to operate. FinNexus’ goal is to provide diversification and convenience with assets of real value. Users will be able to invest in assets with various risks and returns here, and can easily choose to their preferences like in a supermarket.
  2. FinNexus Itself
FinNexus is concentrating in the application level, with the help of the two initiators. It will not operate or manage assets directly and will act as a channel or a hub, where supplies and needs are paired, while in later stages, it will strive to build the protocols or standards for all of these tokenizations and transactions.
5. 🏆 What are tokenized digital assets in FinNexus? How is it different from current digital assets? @hg144
The FinNexus team have done researches on the tokenization of real world assets. Right now, only a few groups like the credit assets, supply chain finance or other sub-dividable beneficial rights seem most feasible. These tokenized products may bear characteristics like equities, debentures, derivatives or other beneficiary rights.
The noticeable differences lie in the nature of the products. The returns are from the cashflow of the real world assets, rather than mining, staking, speculating, etc. FinNexus combines the decentralized and centralized means. The tokens have advantages on chain, while the product design and disclosure draw lessons from traditional finance.
Apart from that, there will also be products totally on chain, triggered by smart contracts, like crypto futures, options, and ETFs, with user-friendly interfaces.
6. 🏆 What are the advantages and disadvantages of FinNexus when developing in a large market like China? Do you have plans to develop other regions? @hiampluto
Advantages:
(1) The blockchain industrial environment and public opinion guidance has changed since China’s President Xi Jinping recent announcement. The word blockchain has been mentioned in social media time and time again, and almost everyone is trying to find out what it is. President made it clear that the country would encourage enterprises applying the technology into real world scenarios.
(2) China has the largest population and made great technological progress over the last decade. Blockchain projects, communities, exchanges, token funds, medias, and other participants have established a complete and dynamic ecosystem. FinNexus is easy to access to these resources.
(3) Financial market in China has been making great progress, which provides FinNexus with adequate talents, financial products and potential users.
(4) The two initiators Wanchain and SuperAtom (incubated by Cheetah Mobile) are all based in China. They both give FinNexus big financial, human-power and community support, with minimum communication cost in the same city.
Disadvantages:
(1) Activities like ICOs or other forms of public fund-raising are still restricted;
(2) The government’s attitude towards the security-like tokens and tokenization is still not clear;
(3) Language and time zone discrepancy may cause difficulties.
FinNexus is aiming to build a global open finance protocol. Blockchain should be boundless, and so will be our users and assets. Our first product’s basic asset is in SE Asia. We are now building teams, grouping communities, and recruiting regional ambassadors. Also, we are making continuous and effective interactions with the global communities of Wanchain and Bitrue.
7. 🏆 FinNexus’s team consists of experienced and brilliant individuals. What made them to unite together and work in unison for the fulfilment of it and how does it act as an advantage compared to other projects in terms of brainstorming and guidance? @cryptollll
Though key members of FinNexus team seem to have different educational backgrounds or working experiences, we come together with the same beliefs and goals. The same purpose has united us together and after grinding-in over one and a half years, we are working together energetically and harmoniously, which provides a foundation for the success of FinNexus. It is not the first time we work together and we knew each other with for long time. The details of resumes are on the website.
8. 🏆 Many blockchain projects and companies focus on making very complex systems, say they will revolutionize the society, and help the unbanked. Since you work directly in the area, how realistic do you think such statements are? @lucbazanse
The team has been working together for more than a year already. FinNexus is a project at the layer 3 level in the blockchain system, targeting at the application usage. The team believes that no matter how innovative or revolutionary a new technology is, if it fails to be conveniently applied in everyday use or have efficient or cost-saving solutions to users, we cannot call it a successful technology.
Therefore, we will build our application on top of the successful public chains and concentrate in providing financially practical and risk diversified products and user friendly applications. We doubt that the unbanked can be helped by a complex system. Unbanked group of people usually exist in the less developed regions that lack basic infrastructure. They may not well educated or lack the basic understanding of the technology or even ideas of modern financial or banking system.
Therefore, the application is most important. A successful project should provide them with friendly interfaces and convenient accesses, aiming directly to their basic needs, no matter how complex or innovative the technology is. That’s what FinNexus is trying to do, to provide what is needed the most in a simple and understandable way.
9. 🏆 Which way you will offer token sale?
We create a new way of the token sales together with launching our products. FinNexus’ will issue its CFNC (convertible FNC), which gives holders the right to convert into ABT in the conversion period. The holders of ABT are eligible to the benefit with an annualized rate of return at over 10%. ABT is called the Asset Backed Token in general, in specific, the return of the token is backed by the consumer loan assets in Indonesia, with the originator SuperAtom, which is initiated by the NYSE listed company Cheetah Mobile, as the basic asset. It has a traditional hierarchical design and the ABT is the token in the senior tranche. The details will be disclosed in the Offering Circular on the FinNexus website later.
We strongly recommend the interested blockchainers to check the details on www.finnexus.io
10. 🏆 Can you tell more about road-map for future developments? @toanphamhd
In phase one, before the end of 2019 or early in 2020, FinNexus is introducing ICTO, combining the fund raising process with its products. Instruments with the essentials of ABT are likely to be one of the major products offered to users, with different systematic risks from the crypto assets. Before the first quarter of 2020, other products like the borrowing and lending, hedging, ETF and staking are likely to be issued, as well as the other schemes of the ABT products. FinNexus will also cooperate with at least three of the token exchanges, crypto wallets or other channels as the sale portals.
In phase two, before the end of 2020, FinNexus will search for the qualified assets globally and combine the blockchain technology with the real world application scenarios in vaster occasions. And FinNexus work with other mainnet projects to launch its new products and interactions with the chain tokens. Moreover, FinNexus will facilitate the trade of the ABT and other similar products on the OTC market. The experience of the traditional financial market shows that the OTC transactions of these products have even higher volume than the bidding mode in the exchanges.
In the third phase, in three years, FinNexus’ goal is to build an open finance protocol. This protocol is established on Layer 3, targeted on the application level. It will provide the basic standard for the tokenization and transaction for all types of assets, both in traditional finance and in the crypto world. All assets that provide future returns will be programmable with blockchain in the future and FinNexus is defining a protocol that provides the standards and convenience in realization. Different assets may apply to various requirements in details, but the common language lying in is what FinNexus is chasing for.
While in the coming days, we would expect 1) the release of the detailed conversion and subscription rules on the website; 2) the release of the ABT offering circular to give a detailed explanation on the risks and returns; 3) setting the timetable for offering and listing of FNC.

RUNNER UP QUESTIONS

11. What is the current development progress of the project, and when is the main online release? @btc4life76
The first product will be released together with ICTO process, details of which you may check on the FinNexus website. Right now, the product is under the final stage of development and the team are working on the necessary information disclosure materials and the design of tokens on Wanchain. The planned release time will be before the end of this year or early next year.
12. “What are the recent change in high-level strategy in product design and development? How will it help the #FinNexus to move further with the safest & fastest Blockchain technology?” @ahmetumit08
FinNexus is a project built on layer 3 and concentrates on technological application. ‘We are the portal to the users and we need to make it simple, convenient, understandable and transparent’.
The advantage does not lie in the sophistication of the underlying technology, but in the application level. To establish an Open Finance Protocol, FinNexus has to move earlier and faster than the others, and at present, it is the first in the industry to put forward this concept.
In product development, we will make each code be used in real use case and keep improving in practice. In the beginning, we will built a layer 3 for assets tokenization and distribution, fee and interests distribution, buying and withdrawing. Users (business users) do not need to connect public chains, but use our SDK or API to interact with different chains. Recently we are focusing on protocols with smart contracts that asset tokenization could be easily deployed by FNX layer 3. And then we will focus on the protocol of decentralized token distribution. That means anyone who wants to sell assets tokens in FinNexus only need to download our SDK or connect our API.
13. How many different types of assets can be expected in the first quarter of 2020 . What will be the jurisdiction of assets and how will FinNexus avoid people from holding assets from restricted jurisdictions? @anon
As a project incubated by SuperAtom, the UangMe assets will work as an initiator, and it has the potential of the amount of 100M USD. In the meantime, similar assets in Malaysia are under discussion. In addition, there will be other types of products the users may expect in the first quarter of 2020, like crypto borrowing and lending products, easy-operating crypto-currency derivatives, ETF products, staking related products, etc., and they are all under development right now.
We have a legal team that help us deal with the jurisdiction issues. We will monitor the changing legal environment around the main countries and regions. KYC procedures are necessary for avoiding investors from holding assets from restricted jurisdictions.
14. How FinNexus and Wanchain both can get benefitted using each others protocol? @salmanmbstu96
FinNexus is the layer 3 which can make users, especially business users, to use Wanchain easily in financial aspects. And FinNexus focuses on different assets, that could grant Wanchain with more applications to run. In most of financial scenarios, multi-coin will be used, so we can use the cross-chain protocol of Wanchain. If Wanchain protocol is like a highway road, FinNexus protocol is working as an assembly line.
15. What do you think about Defi Landscape right now? @paraphan1992
Now, many DeFi projects are limited to the products and applications with the pure crypto assets. They can be highly decentralized and automated, but is it enough?
1) Borrowing and Lending is the first natural DeFi application scenario and contributes to over 90% of the application scenarios. It cannot be everything about DeFi. The growth of the DeFi should be largely diversified to other assets and business models.
2) The risks in the DeFi world is similar, in other words, most of the DeFi models are facing the same systematic risks, which are with high risk and high expected return characteristics. In cases when the bitcoin collapses, every businesses and scenarios will be affected. This is not healthy. Tokens transactions with high risks and the relating credit activities cannot be the whole world of DeFi. FinNexus is trying to introduce financial products with different types and levels of risks and expected returns, to enrich the products desperately needed in the industry.
3) The DeFi applications are not so user-friendly. One has to take some time to learn how to deal with one decentralized product. FinNexus aims at providing something that is transparent with the information needed for the investors to make judgment while easy to handle.
Right now, Maker is trying to move to Multi-Collateral Dai (MCD), a big step to make the DeFi model richer and healthier. Also they introduce Dai Savings Rate (DSR), which may have the potential to be regarded as one of the standard rates. In the future, we may witness wider real world assets and application scenarios in DeFi and that is the path that DeFi is bound to follow.
16. Can FinNexus support smart contracts? @btc4life76
The answer is yes, smart contracts will play important roles in the FinNexus products. The first phase of products will be built on Wanchain and according to the ICTO rules, the ABT conversion and the future payment of principal and interest of ABT will all be supported by smart contracts. Again, for details of ICTO please check our website. In later phases ,we will develop other products based on ETH or other chains according to the users’ requirements and asset characteristics; and smart contracts will be richer and more diversified.
17. Why do we need DEFI? What is the new thing that DeFi bring to us? Was your project born for that? @oluap5773
A: The decentralized blockchain technology needs application scenarios, and the finance needs the innovative technology to solve its own problems, thus here comes the merge of the two.
Bitcoin brings the blockchain technology into our sight and until now, it has 70% of the total value of crypto assets. Bitcoin is born to facilitate the financial transactions and most of the project henceforth cannot be isolated from the financial fields. There is an inevitable bond since the birth of the technology, and finance is always the natural experimental field of blockchain.
The problem of information asymmetry is always puzzling investors and regulators. Most of the solution came from a centralized way from the authorities before, while the result was much diversified among regions. With the emergence of blockchain, it provides an alternative solution to this long-lasting issue. It is trustworthy, non-modifiable and self-proved. Moreover, it is bondless and anti-authorized, which can largely reduce the cost of international transactions while enhancing the efficiency. The technology is self-organized, decentralized and automated. DeFi has the potential to change the governance structure and investment behavior in the financial world.
Tens of years ago, the internet has brought finance efficiency and popularization. Today blockchain is about to change the financial system again. It introduces the participants into a new territory that is bondless, decentralized, trustworthy, and equal. It will largely decrease the cost of centralized supervision, the risk of information asymmetry and the barrier among economic entities. Many business formats will change concerning the technology, including the economic entities, governance authorities, market intermediaries, exchanges and the transaction behavior of investors. For example, in the future, it is expected that the basic bookkeeping of a business entity will be on blockchain, and all of the operational activities like procurement, production, sales, inventories, invoices, taxations, employments, etc., will be dealt with and recorded in a decentralized way. Therefore, the auditors’ jobs are shifting from the bookkeeping test of accuracy to the verification of the validity of the chain.
Of course, FinNexus is born to be part of the big change, and we strive to be one of the driving forces of the financial decentralization progress. The goal of FinNexus is to build an Open Finance Protocol. The protocol is like a channel or a standard, to allow all kinds of assets, whether decentralized or centralized, whether with characteristics of equity, debenture, derivative or other hybrid, to find its path towards tokenization with the blockchain technology. By maintaining the basic business logic and learning from the traditional financial model, FinNexus will combine with the advantages of the blockchain technology, to make investors truly benefit from decentralization.
18. Which target users does FinNexus aim to serve? Will its technology be easy for participants to use but still ensure open, transparent and equal way? @paraphan1992
FinNexus aims to serve those who know blockchain and have invested in crypto assets or DeFi products, those who know real world investment but little about blockchain, and those who know little about crypto assets or financial investment but interested in the blockchain technology and curious on the virtual assets.
The meaning of ‘Nexus’ has many parts, and one is to make connections with different market participants. FinNexus will work through protocols and try to act as a channel. In future stages, it will make connections with the OTC markets providing fiat and crypto currency exchanges. Through these protocols, non-crypto users will be able to invest in the FinNexus products.
As FinNexus is built on Layer 3, the protocol will be built combining the decentralized and centralized solution. User-friendliness is a must. By means of easy interfaces, full information disclosure and integrated protocols, users with various degree of knowledge and different risk tolerance are able to get their suitable investment, easily and transparently.
whether decentralization or centralization, are means not targets.
Openness, transparency and equality are necessary to lower credit risks in financial activities. The subscription, transaction, interaction and distribution of financial products will be on chain in a decentralized way, implemented by smart contracts; while the information disclosure, real assets collateral and basic assets operation will be off chain in a centralized way. FinNexus protocols will work to achieve such goals.
submitted by noahniuwa to finnexus [link] [comments]

Beginner's Guide to Trading Crypto. Part 9

Beginner's Guide to Trading Crypto. Part 9

Cryptocurrency Coin Vs Token: The Hierophants Of The Crypto Market

The cryptocurrencies market is rapidly changing as new terms are emerging along with their technological backing. But no matter how advanced blockchain technologies may become, the fundamental pillars of the market are the token and the coin. The irony is that many market participants do not yet know the difference between the two terms, or may even consider knowing those differences redundant. That is a pity, since the crypto coin vs token dilemma has been around for years and can never have too much explanation.
https://preview.redd.it/u8n6oqkt4g241.png?width=763&format=png&auto=webp&s=ef16e7cf5b10a9e0f78559243aca57a9711250cb

What Is A Token?

The token is the most basic form of asset available on the crypto market. Tokens are digital assets, which are issued by a project on the blockchain. Their main purpose is serving as means of payment for goods and services within the framework of the project ecosystem. They also grant their holders the right of participation in the network through joining groups or even voting much like a share on the financial market.
There are two types of tokens, the utility and security tokens. Utility tokens are exactly what their name implies, they are used as means for achieving a goal, much like a token in the subway, which, once entered into the machine, will give the holder the right to take a ride. On the other hand, security tokens are representative of a project’s share and give their holders the right to expect profit in the future much like a security on the financial market.
The most comment abbreviation on the market is ERC-20 and many people would ask “What are ERC-20 tokens?” There are two main types of standards for tokens, the ERC-20 and the ERC-721. ERC-20, or Ethereum Request For Comment (20 stands for the number assigned to the standard by the programmers) is the most popular programming standard used for the operation of smart contracts on the Ethereum blockchain. ERC-721 is much less frequently encountered, but it is a free and open standard as well. It is used for building non-fungible tokens on the Ethereum blockchain. Unlike ERC-20 tokens, which are all the same in their standard, each ERC-721 token is unique by virtue of its nature.
There are many other standards on the market with their own unique characteristics, for example ERC-223, which is a variation of ERC-20 with added functionality, the ERC-777, which is an improved version of ERC-20. There are also the ERC-1155, ERC-1337 and others.

What Is A Coin?

Coins are the firstborn of the crypto market with the greatest value. Coins are the original digital money built on the basis of cryptographic technologies with blockchain at their core. Just like money, coins were designed to hold value and bear it over time. The blockchain serves as the substitute for banks and provides transparency and fraud-free operation for coins. Coins have many of the main characteristics of money, since they are fungible, divisible into smaller portions, acceptable as an equivalent of money at outlets for goods and services, portable like cash or bank cards, durable thanks to their electronic nature, and have a limited supply, or emission. Bitcoin, Ripple, Litecoin, Monero and many others are coins.
Two of the main characteristics of coins that set them apart from all other assets are:
  1. Coins can be mined from a limited emission pool, and they can be sent or received like ordinary money;
  2. Coins are meant to act only as money and are not used in any particular project as an asset for receiving goods or services provided by that project.

The Difference Between Coins And Tokens

If we were to sum up the crypto token vs coin dilemma, then we have to look at the essence of the coins and tokens together.
Coins are money that does not act within the framework of any project as a means of gaining goods or services, they act as a store of value and either appreciate or depreciate over time, and coins can be mined from a limited issuance pool.
Tokens cannot be mined, they act as either utility assets granting access to goods and services within the framework of a specific project, or as a security and share equivalent of a project. They are non-fungible and can be bought at exchanges from the issuing projects. Most tokens are pre-mined and cannot be mined beyond the limited issuance.
https://preview.redd.it/be0drk7z4g241.png?width=799&format=png&auto=webp&s=2d383f4f1b1992dfcb83e1dc69a0f9792c17adf6

Coin Vs Token: Where To Buy?

Coins and tokens can be bought or sold on exchanges. The most popular means of buying tokens and coins is through the use of US Dollars or other Coins. Tokens cannot be exchanged for other tokens in essence, since exchanges operate with coins or fiat currencies, like the US Dollar. To buy the tokens of a project, traders must either use fiat currencies or buy coins and then buy the tokens. The same applies for coins, which can only be bought for other coins or fiat currencies.
There are dozens of exchanges on the market, but one of the most convenient is Binance. We invite everyone to visit Binance and try it out to evaluate its convenience and broad range of functions.

Forming Up

The ICO phenomenon swept across the market in 2017-2018, but few actually thought that the ICO, or Initial Coin Offering is not the same as an ITO, or Initial Token Offering. Most projects that went under the title of an ICO did not offer coins, but tokens. Therefore, before launching an asset, a project must first decide what its asset is – a coin or a token.
If we consider the ICO token vs coin dilemma in general, it is important to understand that only coins bear value like money in general, while tokens are confined to a certain project and only grant access to its goods or services.

Check us out at https://moontrader.io
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MoonTraderPlatform
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MoonTrader_io
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/19203733
Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/Moontrader_official/
Telegram: https://t.me/moontrader_news_en

Originally posted on our blog.
submitted by MoonTrader_io to Moontrader_official [link] [comments]

Monthly Discussion Thread - January 2018

Please welcome your new moderators to this sub! jacobredddk and -gunsOfTheNavarone-
We will be posting links to reddit posts and other news that have accumulated through the month and have the comments section open for discussion! If you have any questions about COSS, the payout, or anything else, please refer to the FAQ post first!
What is COSS?
News
Informative Reads
Weekly Split
Please lets keep discussions civil and on topic. For the time being, talk of other coins out of context of COSS will be removed.
submitted by BuddhaSpader to CossIO [link] [comments]

The Reddit Picks My Coins Experiment: I will invest $200-$400 of my own money on a basket of cryptocurrencies selected by reddit upvotes

Hi everyone!
I have a crazy idea: I'm going to let Reddit pick a basket of cryptocoins for me, which I'll then buy with my own money. Specifically, depending on the number of suggestions and upvotes received, I will invest $20-$25 each in between 10 and 20 coins. Voting will close in two weeks, at midnight Eastern Time on May 1, 2018.
The purpose of this thread is to pick the coins. Suggest a coin in the comments below--only one coin per comment, though. If you name more than one coin in a comment, then only the first one you name counts. Your comment should also include a link to the coin's page on CoinMarketCap, and a brief explanation for why you think I should pick it. So, ideally, your reply will look something like this:
I think you should pick Bitcoin because it's the biggest one.
Additionally, here are a few rules for the coins that will be included:
  1. The coin (or token) must be available from major exchange (e.g., Binance, Kraken, KuCoin, TradeSatoshi, or similar).
  2. The coin may not make obviously fraudulent statements on its website (e.g., "Turn lead into platinum! Earn 40% in profit per month, guaranteed!")
  3. The coin must not be designed for what is in my judgment an immoral purpose (e.g., propping up the Venezuelan government, enabling state surveillance by authoritarian governments, funding ISIS, etc.)
  4. This post must get at least 50 upvotes, and receive at least 20 suggestions before I will buy anything.
  5. I will pick the coins based on the suggestions and upvotes submitted as of 12am EDT on May 2, 2018.
So, tell me, what should I buy?
Edit: I should have added, I promise to hold anything I buy for at least 3 months, and to post updates at least monthly for the duration of the experiment.
Edit2: Number of upvotes required lowered from 200 to 50--to be clear, that's 50 upvotes for the whole post, not for individual comments. Right now, it's nowhere near that, though.
Edit3: OMFGWTFBBQ, I am not asking anyone to do research for me; I'm asking to be shilled. I'm going to be researching all of the top-voted suggestions to make sure that they comply with Rules 1-3 above. If you don't like this idea or this post, that's fine, but please be clear that I'm doing this for fun only. I'm not expecting this to be a serious money-making investment--if this makes money, then great; if it doesn't, oh well. I make my own decisions when making serious investments, using my own independent research. This isn't that.
submitted by ThaneduFife to CryptoCurrency [link] [comments]

Slack log for Ark token's value proposition discussion 16-07-18

Please find below a log of the discussion we had in slack regarding the ark token's value proposition. Some of the community members who happen to be long term holders of ark feel that the ark token's value proposition isn't clearly communicated by the team so they asked about it. I'm posting the entire discussion it here to make a permanent record since slack wipes messages after a while.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
arigard [7:21 PM]
Hey team, so I'm curious. Is there any update on a new white paper at all that was being mentioned? I've been holding Ark since it hit Bittrex and I personally don't really have a clear idea about how the token is going to work in the overall picture, or what really the direction is for the project once v2 is out. It feels like things have gone a bit flat recently, are there any updates on direction and what the plan is once V2 is live? Is there any idea about when it might go live? Or how the Ark token will fit into the economy (will it be a gas?). I see a lot of other projects i'm invested in coming up with very clear roadmaps/dates and direction about what they want to be and I still personally feel Ark's message is a little confused and hard to read especially for people who are not coders/developers.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:22 PM]
the roadmap is on the site, arkdirectory.com/kits has nice presentations and other goodies
roks0n (deadlock) [7:23 PM]
@Matthew_DC mentioned a couple of days ago that he’s preparing several blog posts which should explain most of these @arigard
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:23 PM]
the Blog also goes into lots of v2 details
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:24 PM]
Hi everyone.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:24 PM]
Ark is Ark, not like Eth with gas, hence no gas.
Hey @Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) welcome back
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:24 PM]
Hey rob, hi Rok :slightly_smiling_face:
roks0n (deadlock) [7:25 PM]
Rob, I think he means how everything will be connected with ArkVM etc.
similar conversation as the one few days ago (edited)
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:25 PM]
It's been a while, but I was head on in the project, sorry for not showing more often.
arigard [7:25 PM]
Yeah my main question is really I still don't know what will give the actual Ark token value .
goldenpepe [7:25 PM]
we dont know how the arkvm will work
All we can do is wait
Doubled1c3 (ArkStickers.com) [7:26 PM]
uploaded and commented on this image: bucket.jpg
@Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe)
goldenpepe [7:26 PM]
We can make assumptions but that's all they'll be
roks0n (deadlock) [7:26 PM]
@arigard this was the discussion: https://arkecosystem.slack.com/archives/C2ABRLZB8/p1531422791000216
roks0n (deadlock)
definitely, I’m not blaming anyone :slightly_smiling_face: Was just curious if there were any developments in terms of the updated whitepaper because I was reading one of the threads on reddit from 6 months ago where it was mentioned you’re looking to hire someone write it up.
Posted in #generalJul 12th
arigard [7:26 PM]
And I kind of feel this is such a big elephant in the room for people in the long run.
roks0n (deadlock) [7:26 PM]
click on the link and read from that post on (edited)
arigard [7:26 PM]
ok
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:27 PM]
I saw that there has been some drawbacks with the V2 ?
(Not sure if it's exact, I only came a few times and seemed to understand it was so)
goldenpepe [7:28 PM]
There are just some incompatibilities between v1 and v2 in devnet
which is why devnet is currently down
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:28 PM]
ArkVM may be unnecessary as more modern approaches to handling contracts are available, one of the main issue is having them be distributed just like the tokens.
goldenpepe [7:28 PM]
There's a community run v2-only devnet though #devnet_unofficial
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:28 PM]
it's more like drawback with v1
arigard [7:30 PM]
I mean I've seen a lot of stuff in that discussion discussed over the past year and there still seems to be no concrete answers coming out and that is a bit of worry to me personally. It makes it look like the team doesn't even know. I think most that know of Ark understand it wants to create an easy way to deploy blockchains and work as a platform and have some inoperability options. But the fundamentals of how that work right now seems to be up in the air. In other projects I know what gives those tokens value, but in Ark I don't, so it's hard for me as an investor to really sell to someone else the benefits of the token when there is a big question mark still on it.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:33 PM]
do you know that Ark Deployer has been available for quite some time?
arigard [7:34 PM]
Yes, that doesn't really answer any questions though.
mak [7:34 PM]
Ark deployer helps the main chain's business case somehow?
arigard [7:35 PM]
What gives Ark token actual value? Like what is the reason people need to buy and hold the Ark token? That is my question.
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:36 PM]
@mak what you're saying is kinda like answering you can use a hammer when asked what a nail do.
arigard [7:36 PM]
You don't need to buy the Ark token to deploy a chain. You can just do it.
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:36 PM]
I mean, the Ark Deployer doesn't answer what's the Ark.
mak [7:36 PM]
@Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) my point was directed towards rob's comment. I think you misunderstood it.
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:37 PM]
@mak My bad then. I apologize.
Blockhunter [7:38 PM]
:boogieark9:
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:38 PM]
" I think most that know of Ark understand it wants to create an easy way to deploy blockchains and work as a platform and have some inoperability options. But the fundamentals of how that work right now seems to be up in the air."
This is why I wrote that.. there is no mystery of how that works. You are mistaken or uninformed.
arkenstone [7:38 PM]
That's the problem here because team is programming orientated but there hasn't been alot done on business aspect of the token and marketing investor point big view
mak [7:38 PM]
That only explains the value of the ark codebase not the blockchain though
arigard [7:38 PM]
I think you seem to be trying to turn the argument in a seperate direction.
It's a simple question.
What gives the Ark token value.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:39 PM]
The market does. It's on 19 different exchanges.
arigard [7:39 PM]
Seems like you are being unhelpfully obtuse. I'll rephrase.
roks0n (deadlock) [7:39 PM]
so one thing that is clear to me is interoperability using ACES, where ARK is used as a “middleman” between two different chains, so if there’s high volume between those chains, it means the volume of ark increases as well .. what I’d like to know is how things will work with arkvm and how it will all work with sidechains (on eth, all the side chains will basically link back to the main chain which will be the one responsible for security afaik?)
arigard [7:39 PM]
What gives the Ark token value in the Ark ecosystem.
Blockhunter [7:40 PM]
Vote for Pedro he will make all your dreams come true
arigard [7:40 PM]
Eth is a gas, Waves is a gas. Ark is... what?
mak [7:40 PM]
ACES can work with any chains though. Doesn't have to be ark main chain. So I guess tomorrow persona can become the settlement layer for the Ark ecosystem and there's no incentive to stop it from happening.
arigard [7:40 PM]
^
roks0n (deadlock) [7:41 PM]
Mak, correct but if there are already lots of chains connected between ARK, it will be more appealing to link it through ARK directly
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:41 PM]
As I understand it, ACES could be using any given blockchain as the middle man...
roks0n (deadlock) [7:41 PM]
it doesn’t mean that it can’t be copied tho
arigard [7:41 PM]
But there are no chains connected through Ark atm
That have any real value anyway
roks0n (deadlock) [7:41 PM]
eth and btc are
arigard [7:41 PM]
And they can be connected through any Ark clone.
bangomatic [7:41 PM]
I'd love to hear the Ark team chime in on this discussion
arigard [7:42 PM]
So anyone can come along and make another chain that can instantly overtake Ark at this present time if there isn't a failsafe reason for Ark to be the defacto currency.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:42 PM]
https://arkecosystem.slack.com/archives/C2ABRLZB8/p1531762883000422 you can't keep saying things like this as if they are true.
arigard
That have any real value anyway
Posted in #generalToday at 7:41 PM
Blockhunter [7:42 PM]
Interoperability to the moon
mak [7:42 PM]
"it will be more appealing to link it through ARK directly"
Currently Ark is the only mature chain because it's been around longer but the moment persona or some other bridge chain gets listed on an exchange that dynamic is no longer there. So why would you prefer Ark over persona when that happens. That's the question as far as I understand it. (edited)
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:43 PM]
Persona has other goals, not duplicating Ark goals
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:43 PM]
@bangomatic Hi!
arigard [7:43 PM]
What current sidechain of Ark has real value/position in the crypto market? Persona?
bangomatic [7:43 PM]
hey @Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe)!
mak [7:43 PM]
The blockchain as a transaction medium doesn't care about secondary goals.
It still has all the capabilities that Ark has.
Colby [7:43 PM]
What has value right now? :thinking_face:
rob [ Ark Labs ]
https://arkecosystem.slack.com/archives/C2ABRLZB8/p1531762883000422 you can't keep saying things like this as if they are true.
https://arkecosystem.slack.com/archives/C2ABRLZB8/p1531762883000422
Posted in #generalToday at 7:42 PM
arigard [7:43 PM]
Ark's ecosystem at present is not big enough to be a reason not to just take the tech and start your own.
To think otherwise is ludicrous.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:44 PM]
that's a fine opinion
Jarunik [7:44 PM]
it is harder than you think :slightly_smiling_face:
arigard [7:44 PM]
We aren't Eth with multi $100mn + start ups and even if we were, what's currently to stop one of those just overtaking Ark and leaving it behind?
Jarunik [7:45 PM]
i hope some ark clones get really sucessful to be honest :slightly_smiling_face:
Colby [7:45 PM]
Same here!
Jarunik
i hope some ark clones get really sucessful to be honest :slightly_smiling_face:
Posted in #generalToday at 7:45 PM
Blockhunter [7:45 PM]
HODL ROCKET TECHNOLOGY
mak [7:45 PM]
Same here but then there's no reason to hold Ark over something else
arigard [7:45 PM]
i hope so too if there is some reason for Ark to always be there at the top considering it's the Ark platform.
Colby [7:45 PM]
But the thing is that I am wondering, if ark clones get successful, what benefits does it give back to ark
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:45 PM]
@Jarunik to create an ecosystem?
mak [7:45 PM]
Right now we have to consider Ark's value not the other bridge chains
arigard [7:45 PM]
But if there isn't a reason for Ark to exist at the top, why are we all holding it?
Colby [7:45 PM]
Haha I think we are all thinking the same :slightly_smiling_face:
arigard [7:45 PM]
It's a terrible business plan
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:46 PM]
the point of BridgeChains is to allow new projects with no access the market a path to them through Ark, and hence gain value.
Other blockchains connections are through ACES, such as BTC, LTC, ETH, and more coming..
Persona has a way to trade Ark <> Prs
arigard [7:47 PM]
What is to stop them from getting their own exchanges in the future and just using Ark as a stepping stone to becoming their own platform operator?
mak [7:47 PM]
Sure rob, but there's now 10 different projects doing the same and they are faster in development than the ark team is
arigard [7:47 PM]
^
Blockhunter [7:47 PM]
Ark is the Yoda of blockchain and they need a better catchphrase. Better than ark gives no dates or point click blockchain
arigard [7:48 PM]
This attitude seems horribly naive if this is the value proposition.
mak [7:48 PM]
All of us believe in the vision that Ark brought us but I personally am not sure if Ark is the best option to execute that vision in time
arigard [7:48 PM]
The issue is, we don't know what the value proposition is.
mak [7:48 PM]
Other projects seem much faster
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:48 PM]
if you are into speculation, which it seems you are, then on paper all of your projects with no code are better and have more value than Ark
arigard [7:48 PM]
That's not true at all. lol.
Matthew_DC [7:49 PM]
At the most base level, ARK is a common currency token that is essentially automatically compatible with every bridge chain that is built based on ARK and is optimized for transaction volume and throughput to avoid bloat of other mechanisms introduced by the other chains. That is at the most basic level. By holding the ARK token itself, you will be able to enact the functions of multiple bridged chains both issued by our team and others. You will also be able to utilize the ARK chain as a pegged token to many bridged chains but that process will be transparent to users as it will be done behind the scenes without the user needing to do any functions. To think that someone will fork the code and generate a more effective ARK main chain means you have no confidence in the ARK team as the primary developer of the technology itself. In this case, if we are not and someone pushes a better version of the network, then I would argue maybe they SHOULD be chosen. That is the point of a free and open market. Not to mention the potential for registering and providing snapshot hashes to the main ARK blockchain to provide added security measures to a bridge chain with lower security due to lower market share etc, those are just baseline reasons.
As I mentioned the other day, at face value, consider this. What brings value to Litecoin or Bitcoin or Doge? In essence, ARK is a more effective currency and base network than all of these aforementioned networks with all of the added benefits being added for additional use cases.
roks0n (deadlock) [7:50 PM]
will ark based chains be bridged via arkvm?
goldenpepe [7:50 PM]
They cant be
You'd need the VM on both sides
Matthew_DC [7:50 PM]
I am currently on a conference call and have a lot going on so I can't respond too much.
goldenpepe [7:50 PM]
You can use AIP11's new tx types to do a sort of escrow between chains though i think
mak [7:50 PM]
@Matthew_DC Are you saying that the bridgechains deployed by ark-deployer don't have the same features?
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:50 PM]
ArkVM is not for bridging chains
goldenpepe [7:51 PM]
It can be
Coinme [7:51 PM]
And ICO's that will join Ark in the future will use it for buying their token.
goldenpepe [7:51 PM]
But both chains will need to be running the VM
Matthew_DC [7:51 PM]
The ARK main chain will have specific methods of allowing token transfer and utilization between chains to include quasi-centralized methods through aces, decentralized aces based intermediary networks, Time locked transfers, among custom built smart contract like logic built into the core technology itself that doesn't make the network susceptible to the bloat and mis-utilization an vulnerabilities of full VM use.
goldenpepe [7:51 PM]
(which the main ark chain wont be)
mak [7:51 PM]
"ICO's that will join Ark in the future will use it for buying their token"
Or any other bridgechain that's listed on exchanges
@Matthew_DC So will all of the bridgechains, no? I could start an ACES node today for persona and it will have no difference from what you describe.
Matthew_DC [7:52 PM]
@mak no, we promised ARK would be open source and everything we build for the core ARK blockchain will be open source.
arigard [7:53 PM]
You can be open source and still protect your value..
Matthew_DC [7:54 PM]
The point of ARK from day 1 has been to create a better base layer blockchain technology and protocol for everyone everywhere to be able to use to create anything they can dream up.
The ARK token is a core payment layer for the ecosystem including any applications we build ourselves, sponsor, partner with, or support.
mak [7:54 PM]
It seems like the team's vision for Ark is as a software product only and there's no business plan for the main chain. Which is fine but it's not explained as such. (edited)
Blockhunter [7:55 PM]
Great to see such active discussions
goldenpepe [7:55 PM]
I think what Matt is trying to portray is this:
A single universal Ark Ecosystem wallet holding ARK that has a nice UI with a list of dapps in the ecosystem
You select a dapp
You send a tx from the wallet using Ark
----------------Everything below this line is transparent to the user-----------------
The Ark transaction has instructions in the smartbridge field
The Ark gets converted to dappCoin via an intermediary like ACES (trustful) or a trustless escrow smart contract
The intermediary received Ark and uses the dappCoin on the dapp chain to do whatever it is the user wanted to do using the instructions in the smartbridge field
The dappchain responds to the request to the intermediary
Intermediary sends an Ark tx with the results of the dapp computation/action in the smartbridge field
---------------Everything above this line is transparent to the user-------------------
After 8+ seconds, user's wallet shows them the result of their interaction with the dapp bridgechain
That's where the value of Ark will come from
The Ark coin will be a universal "omni-coin"
Matthew_DC [7:56 PM]
:this: This
goldenpepe [7:56 PM]
That will instantly shapeshift into bridgechain coins to interact with the bridgechain dapp
mak [7:58 PM]
I understand what your point is and I agree it will work but only as long as none of the bridge chains are on an exchange
when for example persona gets listed on binance the scenario changes
and now either chain can become the backbone of the ark ecosystem
arigard [7:58 PM]
Yes. We see that. But hypothetically what is to stop a bridged Ark chain from becoming bigger than Ark and then going on to become that gateway? At this point it just seems to be hopium that the Ark network will always be the one people look to. But in one year, or two, or five, it might not be the case. What is to stop Ark being just sidelined if another team come along with develop on what Ark has built and propel it forward and take the mantle?
goldenpepe [7:58 PM]
What you say will be a problem only if the utility of the dapp coin is greater than the utility of the ark omnicoin
Would you rather hold a coin that can do one thing and is forever tied to a single chain
arigard [7:59 PM]
But in other crypto's an app becoming sucessfull is a benefit. In Ark's network it could be a negative.
goldenpepe [7:59 PM]
Or would you rather hold a coin that can interact with that single chain and 3232523432 others
arigard [7:59 PM]
But why can't another coin become an omnicoin?
If there are no limitations against it
goldenpepe [7:59 PM]
Why can't another coin become ethereum?
mak [7:59 PM]
"What you say will be a problem only if the utility of the dapp coin is greater than the utility of the ark omnicoin"
Or if it gives out better staking returns etc like persona because of higher inflation rate
goldenpepe [7:59 PM]
if there are no limitations against it
You can literally go on AWS right now and deploy an ethereum clone chain
arigard [7:59 PM]
It can, but an ETH token can't oust ETH
That's the difference. We are giving people an easy route here.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:59 PM]
do you often think your children should not surpass you? Or is that the hope?
Matthew_DC [8:00 PM]
Well it's about security, trust, potential vulnerabilities due to added functionality, the ability of the bridgechain team to create interactions and focus on use cases for their token outside of their core use, etc.
But that's the point of open and free markets
goldenpepe [8:00 PM]
There is a solution to your concern @arigard
Matthew_DC [8:00 PM]
What is to stop someone from being better than Bitcoin?
arigard [8:01 PM]
I think all these strawman arguments are fun, but they still aren't adressing the issuel
goldenpepe [8:01 PM]
Instead of having Ark Deployer literally cloning the ark codebase, have it be a turnkey solution to run a layer 2 chain
Matthew_DC [8:01 PM]
You could go fork Ethereum right now and have an exact copy of the capability of the main Eth chain.
goldenpepe [8:01 PM]
bridgechain dapps can be "colored coins"
that are forever tied to the main chain
arigard [8:01 PM]
Yeah but you wouldn't have those businesses on the chain.
goldenpepe [8:01 PM]
but that would introduce bloat
Matthew_DC [8:01 PM]
So you are saying the utility of Ethereum is adoption.
arigard [8:01 PM]
And those businesses won't have the potential to become the main ETH.
Matthew_DC [8:01 PM]
Which is the case for the value of any token.
goldenpepe [8:01 PM]
@arigard It sounds like you want ark to become Ethereum Plasma
arigard [8:02 PM]
I just want an answer.
Matthew_DC [8:02 PM]
How many companies are pulling their ERC20 tokens off of Ethereum because of the issues?
Colby [8:02 PM]
Yeah but correct me if im wrong
goldenpepe [8:02 PM]
There is no answer that will satisfy what you are asking
arigard [8:02 PM]
And i keep getting strawmanned.
Colby [8:02 PM]
Ethereum projects NEED eth for gas
Matthew_DC [8:02 PM]
We talk to people almost every day that are looking to leave Ethereum.
Colby [8:02 PM]
Ark is needed for?
arigard [8:02 PM]
^
Colby [8:02 PM]
This is all I am wondering, where does the ark coin fit into it
I love the idea
goldenpepe [8:02 PM]
@arigard You want ark-based coins to rely on Ark
The team wants the Ark chain to not be bloated
The solution to this is unironically ethereum plasma and sharding
Colby [8:02 PM]
but have been waiting for a while to know how the Ark coin will actually be used
goldenpepe [8:03 PM]
Shards in ethereum are basically "bridgechains"
arigard [8:03 PM]
Ok, and those teams might be big enough and clued up enough to eventually knock Ark from being the de facto omni coin. That's the worry.
If this is in fact the possibility.
Then it should be clear.
mak [8:03 PM]
"You could go fork Ethereum right now and have an exact copy of the capability of the main Eth chain."
@Matthew_DC Ethereum has value because all the dapps live on it which is not true for ark
arigard [8:03 PM]
Because as an investor it worries me, a lot.
I don't know where the value of Ark as an investment is 100% right now.
Jarunik [8:03 PM]
Ark is basically the inverse approach to Ethereum. Eth goes for big one-fits all first and tries to shard ... Ark is creating shards and then combines them
goldenpepe [8:03 PM]
There is no solution to what @arigard and @mak are saying right now
Literally no existing solution
Only proposals like sharding
arigard [8:04 PM]
And all this noise about defensiveness doesn't help. These are legit concerns.
Matthew_DC [8:04 PM]
When was it not clear that if a company comes along and builds a better more used product it could potentially take over market share?
That's how all free markets work.
You can't believe in open source and build and open source product without that risk.
arigard [8:04 PM]
But that isn't the same thing. Ark is literally building THE tools for people to then do that.
mak [8:04 PM]
@Matthew_DC Just to clarify I appreciate the work you guys are doing but I want to make an informed investment decision about holding the ark token
arigard [8:04 PM]
As a platform.
Jarunik [8:04 PM]
yes ... that is the idea how to grow
arigard [8:04 PM]
if you cloned Bitcoin back in the day you were a seperate currency.
Jarunik [8:04 PM]
provide good tools for others to create chains
arigard [8:04 PM]
This is a platform, its totally different.
And what we are discuswsing here is who runs that platform.
Matthew_DC [8:05 PM]
If someone launched an Ethereum chain right now and gained adoption there is a huge potential that all tokens decide to move their ERC20 tokens to the new chain and it becomes the new Ethereum and you have in essence lost all value because Ethereum is not capable of being used on the bridge chain as a currency.
ARK maintains it's value if for no other reason than the pegged value to any chain we personally create to include VM chain, token issuance chain, etc.
arigard [8:05 PM]
If it's built by Ark, does Ark always retain control? if not, why? What happens if Ark ends up building tools for a subsidary project that propels itself above them. Investors will just move to that coin.
Matthew_DC [8:05 PM]
Because it's an open decentralized system.
The problem is people don't actually believe in decentralization if it possibly harms their potential for monetary gain.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [8:06 PM]
we hope bridgechains get popular because that also means more for Ark in many ways.
arigard [8:06 PM]
You can be decentralized without being 100% altruistic. It's not mutually exclusive.
mak [8:06 PM]
@goldenpepe Since you guys claim that there's no solution for this how about I present one which @Matthew_DC can decide if it's useful or not. Make delegate voting for the ArkVM happen on the main chain. So anyone who wants to become a delegate for the VM needs to hold money on the main chain.
arigard [8:07 PM]
It just seems people are being dogmatic about this.
And if this isn't about investment. Why have an ICO?
Matthew_DC [8:07 PM]
Ethereum being the core chain for all ERC20 token based businesses centralizes the industry in a massive way. Not only is Ethereum itself centralized in the way it's mining structure was developed, but it also is centralized in that if the Ethereum network is compromised, thousands of companies assets and business are now compromised.
We don't believe that is the future.
mak [8:07 PM]
I'm not saying that this should be done for all sidechains. Just for the VM and it will be a special case.
Matthew_DC [8:07 PM]
We believe in a different business model.
That has been at the core of every description and explanation I have given from day 1.
arigard [8:07 PM]
Ok and that's fine, but my point is this should be made very clear if it's the case.
From the team officially.
goldenpepe [8:07 PM]
@mak now you're strawmanning me
Matthew_DC [8:07 PM]
Where is it not clear?
goldenpepe [8:08 PM]
I was addressing the fact that the idea that bridgechains shouldnt be independent and should be tied to Ark being in conflict with the Ark team's idea that the main chain should not be bloated with dapps
The only plausible solution to that right now
is Ethereum Plasma
Sharding
yokoama (thefoundry Delegate) [8:09 PM]
Sharting
mak [8:09 PM]
"We believe in a different business model."
I respect that. But it changes the ark's value proposition to just being a source of funding to the ark team and a means of speculation.
goldenpepe [8:09 PM]
Shards in ethereum are like bridgechains but the coins are all erc20s that rely on ethereum
Matthew_DC [8:09 PM]
People said ARK's DPoS mechanism would be a failure when we changed the voting structure because they said it wouldn't be secure enough. It has turned out to be massively secure compared to the centralized cartel run solutions of other DPoS chains. This is another fundamental issue where we believe we have a model that will work and will create value and thousands of use cases for the ARK token in a seamless way for the average user.
goldenpepe [8:09 PM]
and the shard blocks dont interfere or bloat up the "main" eth chain
mak [8:09 PM]
@goldenpepe I'm not suggesting deploying dapps on main chain. Just that the voting should take place there so there is always incentive to keep money on the main chain.
Matthew_DC [8:10 PM]
At no point did we say ARK was gas and have constantly made sure to outline the differences between ARK and Ethereum.
I believe the Eth model is flawed.
goldenpepe [8:11 PM]
The current ethereum model is flawed
If sharding works then it's going to solve a lot of its issues
(i dont hold any ethereum btw)
arigard [8:12 PM]
At no point have we actually had an updated white paper discussing this question in detail, clearly. It's not on the website and if it is it's buried somewhere in a blog post. The fact these discussions keep cropping up is proof of this.
nukacolaplease [8:12 PM]
I think we don't understand clearly what makes Ark important after the launch of the sidechains, Ark will be only an "exchange token"? The sidechain doesn't need Ark for operating
goldenpepe [8:12 PM]
+1 on needing a new whitepaper
Matthew_DC [8:12 PM]
replied to a thread:
This is a means of centralization of the network. Instead, by utilizing a form of pegged bridge chains, we can maintain a similar effect without creating centralization and reliance on 1 chain for others to properly function.
arkenstone [8:12 PM]
I think these things should be clearly written in a new WB and officially made public and promoted
goldenpepe [8:12 PM]
A new whitepaper would clear up so much FUD
pieface [8:13 PM]
Yeah I think a new WP is needed for sure
arigard [8:13 PM]
So don't start going "Oh everybody knows this, it's clear" Show me where on the front page of the website it tells you how the token mechanics will work in the ecosystem? It's not good it being on some powerpoint on a google drive, or hidden in comments in the slack.
mak [8:13 PM]
I though there wasn't going to be a new whitepaper.
arigard [8:13 PM]
It needs to be clear to investors how it works, exactly.
goldenpepe [8:13 PM]
I agree with arigard here
I only know what I know because I live on slack
Matthew_DC [8:13 PM]
The solutions are still in development and there are always opportunities to continue to adapt the model, that's why I have these conversations and ask for feedback regularly, but the core fundamental belief of how open and free decentralized markets should work most likely won't change.
arkenstone [8:13 PM]
Same here
goldenpepe [8:14 PM]
The vast majority of ark holders have no idea
they just bought bc of the cool red triangle
arigard [8:14 PM]
Stop playing cute, this is people's money you are asking for. So at least give them the benefit of being honest that there is no inherent business model reason why Ark will be necessary in the future.
And let them make their decisions.
roks0n (deadlock) [8:14 PM]
I agree, it took me months of following discussion on slack and digging around reddit to get information
arigard [8:14 PM]
With proper information.
mak [8:14 PM]
replied to a thread:
It's centralizing value onto one chain but doesn't bottleneck the ecosystem so I don't see anything being wrong with that.
Matthew_DC [8:15 PM]
replied to a thread:
I'm not arguing with you and I made a clear post here within the last 2 days that our website messaging is shit and needs completely redone.
If the ARK network is compromised or the consensus mechanism of the ARK main net is compromised then all subsequent networks reliant on that consensus would be compromised as well.
mad4thrash [8:15 PM]
In my opinion Ark's value come from (in the future) the fact that by holding one coin I can interact with every bridgechain plus any ACES services
Matthew_DC [8:16 PM]
So what I am saying is that we have to be cautious of these kinds of decisions and ensure that we aren't inadvertently creating attack vectors to take down partners, businesses, and other industries using the technology.
I'm sorry guys, I have to go, but I would love to continue this conversation on Reddit or here at a later time.
mak [8:16 PM]
"all subsequent networks reliant on that consensus would be compromised as well"
^ Correction: only the VM chain will be compromised since I'm not advocating that all bridgechains should vote on the main chain.
Matthew_DC [8:19 PM]
In an isolated case, if we can map it out and vet the concept, I'm more than happy to hear it out and have the conversation.
Solowatch [8:19 PM]
So I think we can all agree an updated Whitepaper is due
Matthew_DC [8:20 PM]
This is a community project and we are shaping pieces of it together as we continue to build. We have already made changes based on community feedback on many occasions.
So I would love to see someone post a proposal to reddit or even as an AIP at some point that we could discuss.
Jarunik [8:20 PM]
If you write a white paper it will be outdated soon :smile:
Solowatch [8:21 PM]
Well a V2 whitepaper shouldn’t be outdated soon
I don’t care about a V1 or V1.5 whitepaper lol
I want a whitepaper for V2 that’s clearly explaining all these concerns that the community has
arkenstone [8:22 PM]
:this:
Solowatch [8:23 PM]
I wrote a few questions down that I’ll post in here later today that @rob [ Ark Labs ] asked for. Please add to it if I missed anything once I do.
arkenstone [8:23 PM]
And I think now it's the time do it. Present it with full package on mainet launch.. (edited)
Solowatch [8:23 PM]
Or PM and I’ll add them before posting
mak [8:25 PM]
Anyways thanks for listening and responding @Matthew_DC. Some of us have been trying to discuss this with the ark team but didn't get much feedback until today.
arigard [8:25 PM]
Yeah +1
arkenstone [8:28 PM]
Alot of early investors are getting worried
submitted by moazzam2k to ArkEcosystem [link] [comments]

Monthly Discussion thread - Feburary

Please welcome your new moderators to this sub! jacobredddk and -gunsOfTheNavarone-
We will be posting links to reddit posts and other news that have accumulated through the month and have the comments section open for discussion! If you have any questions about COSS, the payout, or anything else, please refer to the FAQ post first!
What is COSS?
News
Informative Reads
Weekly Split
Please lets keep discussions civil and on topic. For the time being, talk of other coins out of context of COSS will be removed.
submitted by BuddhaSpader to CossIO [link] [comments]

I wrote a 30,000 ft. "executive summary" intro document for cryptos. Not for you, for your non-technical parents or friends.

This document was originally written for my dad, an intelligent guy who was utterly baffled about the cryptocurrency world. The aim was to be extremely concise, giving a broad overview of the industry and some popular coins while staying non-technical. For many of you there will be nothing new here, but recognize that you are in the 0.001% of the population heavily into crypto technology.
I've reproduced it for Reddit below, or you can find the original post here on my website. Download the PDF there or hit the direct link: .PDF version.
Donations happily accepted:
ETH: 0x4e03Bf5CCE3eec4Ddae4d3d6aAD46ca4f198AeD6 BTC: 1GqWMZRRygRJJWYYTWHkAVoRcgyQHjgBMZ XMR: 42Y1S1KBoPk381kc7hA68zaiC78BxMoCADjLrFcTdWiE7ejhZc49s1t9i7P2EmTnHsLDiKoSUiogCbLVHXRJxjrCT4WG8ic XRB: xrb_1bpzh745s9kzk8ymfnks3jtdi65ayumdstokzd4yw4ohu3fopxmiocjcntcu 

Background

This document is purely informational. At the time of writing there are over 1000 cryptocurrencies (“cryptos”) in a highly volatile, high risk market. Many of the smaller “altcoins” require significant technical knowledge to store and transact safely. I advise you to carefully scrutinize each crypto’s flavor of blockchain, potential utility, team of developers, and guiding philosophy, before making any investment [1] decisions. With that out of the way, what follows are brief, extremely high-level summaries of some cryptos which have my interest, listed in current market cap order. But first, some info:
Each crypto is a different implementation of a blockchain network. Originally developed as decentralized digital cash, these technologies have evolved into much broader platforms, powering the future of decentralized applications across every industry in the global economy. Without getting into the weeds, [2] most cryptos work on similar principles:
Distributed Ledgers Each node on a blockchain network has a copy of every transaction, which enables a network of trust that eliminates fraud. [3]
Decentralized “Miners” comprise the infrastructure of a blockchain network. [4] They are monetarily incentivized to add computing power to the network, simultaneously securing and processing each transaction. [5]
Peer-to-peer Cryptos act like digital cash-- they require no third party to transact and are relatively untraceable. Unlike cash, you can back them up.
Global Transactions are processed cheaply and instantly, anywhere on Earth. Using cryptos, an African peasant and a San Francisco engineer have the same access to capital, markets, and network services.
Secure Blockchains are predicated on the same cryptographic technology that secures your sensitive data and government secrets. They have passed seven years of real-world penetration testing with no failures. [6]

Bitcoin (BTC)

The first cryptocurrency. As with first movers in any technology, there are associated pros and cons. Bitcoin has by far the strongest brand recognition and deepest market penetration, and it is the only crypto which can be used directly as a currency at over 100,000 physical and web stores around the world. In Venezuela and Zimbabwe, where geopolitical events have created hyperinflation in the centralized fiat currency, citizens have moved to Bitcoin as a de facto transaction standard. [7]
However, Bitcoin unveiled a number of issues that have been solved by subsequent cryptos. It is experiencing significant scaling issues, resulting in high fees and long confirmation times. The argument over potential solutions created a rift in the Bitcoin developer community, who “forked” the network into two separate blockchains amidst drama and politicking in October 2017. Potential solutions to these issues abound, with some already in place, and others nearing deployment.
Bitcoin currently has the highest market cap, and since it is easy to buy with fiat currency, the price of many smaller cryptos (“altcoins”) are loosely pegged to its price. This will change in the coming year(s).

Ethereum (ETH)

Where Bitcoin is a currency, Ethereum is a platform, designed as a foundational protocol on which to develop decentralized applications (“Dapps”). Anyone can write code and deploy their program on the global network for extremely low fees. Just like Twitter wouldn’t exist without the open platform of the internet, the next world-changing Dapp can’t exist without Ethereum.
Current Dapps include a global market for idle computing power and storage, peer-to-peer real estate transactions (no trusted third party for escrow), identity networks for governments and corporations (think digital Social Security card), and monetization strategies for the internet which replace advertising. Think back 10 years to the advent of smartphones, and then to our culture today-- Ethereum could have a similar network effect on humanity.
Ethereum is currently the #2 market cap crypto below Bitcoin, and many believe it will surpass it in 2018. It has a large, active group of developers working to solve scaling issues, [8] maintain security, and create entirely new programming conventions. If successful, platforms like Ethereum may well be the foundation of the decentralized internet of the future.

Ripple (XRP)

Ripple is significantly more centralized than most crypto networks, designed as a backbone for the global banking and financial technology (“fintech”) industries. It is a network for exchanging between fiat currencies and other asset classes instantly and cheaply, especially when transacting cross-border and between separate institutions. It uses large banks and remittance companies as “anchors” to allow trading between any asset on the network, and big names like Bank of America, American Express, RBC, and UBS are partners. The utility of this network is global and massive in scale.
It is extremely important to note that not all cryptos have the same number of tokens. Ripple has 100 Billion tokens compared to Bitcoin’s 21 Million. Do not directly compare price between cryptos. XRP will likely never reach $1k, [9] but the price will rise commensurate with its utility as a financial tool.
In some sense, Ripple is anathema to the original philosophical vision of this technology space. And while I agree with the cyberpunk notion of decentralized currencies, separation of money and state, this is the natural progression of the crypto world. The internet was an incredible decentralized wild west of Usenet groups and listservs before Eternal September and the dot-com boom, but its maturation affected every part of global society.

Cardano (ADA)

Cardano’s main claim to fame: it is the only crypto developed using academic methodologies by a global collective of engineers and researchers, built on a foundation of industry-leading, peer-reviewed cryptographic research. The network was designed from first-principles to allow scalability, system upgrades, and to balance the privacy of its users with the security needs of regulators.
One part of this ecosystem is the Cardano Foundation, a Swiss non-profit founded to work proactively with governments and regulatory bodies to institute legal frameworks around the crypto industry. Detractors of Cardano claim that it doesn’t do anything innovative, but supporters see the academic backing and focus on regulation development as uniquely valuable.

Stellar Lumens (XLM)

Stellar Lumens and Ripple were founded by the same person. They initially shared the same code, but today the two are distinct in their technical back-end as well as their guiding philosophy and development goals. Ripple is closed-source, for-profit, deflationary, and intended for use by large financial institutions. Stellar is open-source, non-profit, inflationary, and intended to promote international wealth distribution. As such, they are not direct competitors.
IBM is a major partner to Stellar. Their network is already processing live transactions in 12 currency corridors across the South Pacific, with plans to process 60% of all cross-border payments in the South Pacific’s retail foreign exchange corridor by Q2 2018.
Beyond its utility as a financial tool, the Stellar network may become a competitor to Ethereum as a platform for application development and Initial Coin Offerings (“ICOs”). The theoretical maximum throughput for the network is higher, and it takes less computational power to run. The Stellar development team is highly active, has written extensive documentation for third-party developers, and has an impressive list of advisors, including Patrick Collison (Stripe), Sam Altman (Y Combinator), and other giants in the software development community.

Iota (IOT)

Iota was developed as the infrastructure backbone for the Internet of Things (IoT), sometimes called the machine economy. As the world of inanimate objects is networked together, their need to communicate grows exponentially. Fridges, thermostats, self-driving cars, printers, planes, and industrial sensors all need a secure protocol with which to transact information.
Iota uses a “Tangle” instead of a traditional blockchain, and this is the main innovation driving the crypto’s value. Each device that sends a transaction confirms two other transactions in the Tanlge. This removes the need for miners, and enables unique features like zero fees and infinite scalability. The supply of tokens is fixed forever at 2.8*1015, a staggeringly large number (almost three thousand trillion), and the price you see reported is technically “MIOT”, or the price for a million tokens.

Monero (XMR)

The most successful privacy-focused cryptocurrency. In Bitcoin and most other cryptos, anyone can examine the public ledger and trace specific coins through the network. If your identity can be attached to a public address on that network, an accurate picture of your transaction history can be built-- who, what, and when. Monero builds anonymity into the system using strong cryptographic principles, which makes it functionally impossible to trace coins, [10] attach names to wallets, or extract metadata from transactions. The development team actively publishes in the cryptography research community.
Anonymous transactions are not new-- we call it cash. Only in the past two decades has anonymity grown scarce in the first-world with the rise of credit cards and ubiquitous digital records. Personal data is becoming the most valuable resource on Earth, and there are many legitimate reasons for law-abiding citizens to want digital privacy, but it is true that with anonymity comes bad actors-- Monero is the currency of choice for the majority of black market (“darknet”) transactions. Similarly, US Dollars are the main vehicle for the $320B annual drug trade. An investment here should be based on the underlying cryptographic research and technology behind this coin, as well as competitors like Zcash. [11]

RaiBlocks (XRB)

Zero fees and instantaneous transfer make RaiBlocks extremely attractive for exchange of value, in many senses outperforming Bitcoin at its original intended purpose. This crypto has seen an explosion in price and exposure over the past month, and it may become the network of choice for transferring value within and between crypto exchanges.
Just in the first week of 2018: the CEO of Ledger (makers of the most popular hardware wallet on the market) waived the $50k code review fee to get RaiBlocks on his product, and XRB got listed on Binance and Kucoin, two of the largest altcoin exchanges globally. This is one to watch for 2018. [12]

VeChain (VEN)

Developed as a single answer to the problem of supply-chain logistics, VeChain is knocking on the door of a fast-growing $8 trillion industry. Every shipping container and packaged product in the world requires constant tracking and verification. A smart economy for logistics built on the blockchain promises greater efficiency and lower cost through the entire process flow.
Don’t take my word for it-- VeChain has investment from PwC (5th largest US corporation), Groupe Renault, Kuehne & Nagel (world’s largest freight company), and DIG (China’s largest wine importer). The Chinese government has mandated VeChain to serve as blockchain technology partner to the city of Gui’an, a special economic zone and testbed for China’s smart city of the future. This crypto has some of the strongest commercial partnerships in the industry, and a large active development team.
  1. “Investment” is a misnomer. Cryptos are traded like securities, but grant you no equity (like trading currency).
  2. The weeds for Bitcoin: basic intro (1:36), non-technical explanation (5:24), Bitcoin 101 – Andreas Antonopoulos (23:51).
  3. It is impossible to double-spend or create a fake transaction, as each ledger is confirmed against every other ledger.
  4. Some utility token blockchains use DAG networks or similar non-linear networks which don’t require mining.
  5. In practice, these are giant warehouses full of specialized computers constantly processing transactions. Miners locate to the cheapest electricity source, and the bulk of mining currently occurs in China.
  6. Centralized second-layer exchange websites have been hacked, but the core technology is untouched.
  7. This effect has been termed "bitcoinization".
  8. The Ethereum roadmap shows moving from a Proof of Work (PoW) to Proof of Stake (PoS) consensus model.
  9. At $2.62 per XRP token, Ripple already commands a $100B market cap.
  10. After a January 2017 update.
  11. Monero uses ring signatures while Zcash uses ZK-SNARKs to create anonymity. Both have pros and cons.
  12. Note: all signs point to this crypto being renamed “Nano” in the coming weeks: nano.co.
submitted by jhchawk to CryptoCurrency [link] [comments]

The World Will Never Be The Same, Casper Coin, Reddit + Ethereum, DeFi Explosion & New Bitcoin Users Binance Controversy, CFTC/Bakkt Update, Bitcoin XRP Ethereum Futures & Fake Bitcoin Volume Bitcoin Ethereum e Binance. Il ciclo in atto cambierà le sorti del mercato! What is Bitcoin? Bitcoin Explained Simply for Dummies ... BITCOIN REVERSAL OR RETRACEMENT ? BINANCE BLOCKS WITHDRAWAL  PRIVACY IMPORTANT ? Is cryptocurrency going to collapse like the economy? CZ from Binance explains How To Move Your Bitcoin From Gemini To Binance Binance Has Been Hacked BITCOIN BREAKOUT TODAY!!!  Binance Leverage Trading, Will Compete With Bybit & BitMEX How to SHORT or LONG Bitcoin with Leverage  BINANCE FUTURES TUTORIAL  EXPLAINED for Beginners

My updated review of the Binance Bitcoin exchange will cover everything you need to know for 2018. Don’t trade before reading. Binance has taken the world by storm to become the leading exchange. Rare and high-potential altcoins, unique Maserati giveaways, and bargain basement fees have driven its rise from 0 to market leader in just 6 months. Binance CEO has an explanation for a possible TikTok-driven altseason. July 8, 2020 July 10, 2020. Share 0. Cryptocurrencies are not the first thing on one’s mind when they hear about TikTok. But the all-singing, all-dancing application might catalyze part of the next crypto boom, believe some prominent industry analysts. TikTok; a new crypto-distribution tool. Users of the controversial ... Explanation from Aeron (ARN) to be removed from Binance. By. Edward Gibby - July 15, 2020. 0. Facebook. Twitter. Pinterest. WhatsApp. Linkedin. ReddIt. Aeron’s Twitter account, one of three cryptocurrencies to be released from Binance on July 20, stressed that the decision was unexpected for the Aeron team. The cryptocurrency exchange Binance announced yesterday that it will remove ... The post Bitcoin records trading dominance of over 40% on Binance appeared first on AMBCrypto. Previous article Crypto payment gateway ElectraPay to launch beta testing in Jan 2020 Next article Bitcoin (BTC) Pumps on Genesis Block Anniversary and After a US Drone Strike Binance is the world’s leading blockchain and cryptocurrency infrastructure provider with a financial … Press J to jump to the feed. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Log In Sign Up. User account menu. 3. Bitcoin Futures Exchange CME Is Seeing New Highs… But Binance is still king. General. Close. 3. Posted by 7 hours ago. Bitcoin Futures Exchange CME Is ... Binance, the world’s largest cryptocurrency exchange, temporarily suspended their trading operations on Wednesday following unexpected transactions of SYS tokens on their platform.Even though the trading has since resumed, the reasons for the attack remains a grey area. Since exchange hackings and cryptocurrency thefts has seen a dramatic rise in 2018, the go-to explanation for the anomaly ... Bitcoin rose above $9,000 over the weekend, taking cumulative year-to-date gains to more than 150 percent. Here's three likely reasons why. Binance exchange review 2020 is a comprehensive review on Binance, the review explains the basics of Binance exchange with the help of tutorials, images, videos, and useful links, You will find Binance Exchange Key Points, How To use Binance, How to Trade on Binance, How to deposit and withdraw from Binance, Binance Fees, Binance Supported Cryptocurrencies, Binance staking, Binance Lending ... CZ’s Explanation of Binance Listing SUSHI: With Innovation Comes Risk September 6, 2020 / in Bitcoin / by Crypto Potato The events of the past days shook the DeFi space in a way that no other project did this year. Binance has 115 trading pairs with a daily trading volume of less $10k and 0 liquidity. 10 of them have near $100 trading/liquidity. It means the cost of price manipulation is 100 bucks. The majority of them are BNB markets. Binance allows anonymous accounts and allows withdrawal of 2 BTC for anonymous users. I’ve used Brave browser with Tor ...

[index] [7959] [11432] [20891] [22908] [811] [1009] [8260] [9054] [20455] [17752]

The World Will Never Be The Same, Casper Coin, Reddit + Ethereum, DeFi Explosion & New Bitcoin Users

Bitcoin Technical Analysis & Bitcoin News Today: Binance will launch Bitcoin leverage trading. This mean that Binance will compete with BitMEX and Bybit. Also, I'll use technical analysis on the ... Binance CEO Changpeng Zhao (CZ) joins us to discuss the epic news in cryptocurrency and global markets, what to expect as time goes on, and what opportunities this makes for Bitcoin and other ... Subscribe to my channel for more videos showing how to create passive income with Cryptocurrency. Start buying Bitcoin now with a FREE account by clicking he... Binance In China, Bitcoin Fund Green Light, Happy-Ish Birthday Bitcoin & SBI + XRP Support - Duration: 26:31. ... The best explanation of blockchain technology - Duration: 6:27. Lucas Mostazo ... Amazon Affiliate Link - (If You Buy Something On Amazon, I Get A Small Commission As A Way To Support The Channel) - (There is NO extra cost for you) https://amzn.to/39MXp4q ----- My Second ... Start trading Bitcoin and cryptocurrency here: http://bit.ly/2Vptr2X Bitcoin is the first decentralized digital currency. All Bitcoin transactions are docume... ripple, bitcoin bottom, bull run, should I buy bitcoin, digibyte, binance, basic attention token, btc, fomo, b1, what is eos, eos vs cardano, eos on coinbase, xphone, cardano shelley, brave ... Bitcoin Ethereum e Binance. Il ciclo in atto cambierà le sorti del mercato! #criptovalute #tradingon #Bitcoin SCOPRI la TRADINGON ACADEMY: https://bit.ly/2VnP6oo SCOPRI IL CORSO It's Trading Time ... Subscribe for daily crypto videos : https://goo.gl/zm1G9x Bitcoin will be the new store of value and crypto will be the new technology evolution and I want to be a part of that trough this channel ... Binance Has Been Hacked Jumping on live to discuss what is going on with the Binance Bitcoin Hack! #Binance #Bitcoin #Hack. Firstly, thanks for watching I appreciate your support!

#